A new obstacle

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on March 1, 2010 at 10:51am

You are not looking into reality you are looking into your fear and flame fear in others.

Israel is complex entity with many forces inside it, when you flatten Israel like that you do the same as flatten all Muslims as Jihad fighters.

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Permalink Reply by loungegenie on March 2, 2010 at 3:35am

Interesting you mention flame the fear in others. While all my children are educated about Palestine and the cause, I recently noticed one of my sons watching youtube videos everyday about Palestine. The reality of what Zionists have committed on Palestinians is so evil it disturbs the normal mind. The decent mind. I instinctively intervened and had a talk with him. It's ok as an introductory, just to get the message. It is unhealthy to saturate the mind and imagination with such things. I don't see the Jews treating the holocaust the same way. They saturate their young with it. I don't do that. Could it be because the Jewish holocaust visuals are not as vivid and we see right in front of us the IDF breaking the bones of young Palestinians? And what is the difference to you when you see the bodies piled up in the Jewish holocaust photos and those of Palestinian? The Palestinian bodies are piled up no less higher and over a much longer period of time. They should have a holocaust museum in New York City, don't you think? If not, why?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Weis on March 2, 2010 at 4:00am

When have you seen the IDF pile up dead bodies of Palestinians? The Palestinians pass by IDF soldiers daily, they aren't hiding in the forest or mountains from death squads. The Palestinian population is one of the fastest growing populations in the world.

How many Palestinians are there? 10 million? How many were there 60 years ago? 3 million?

How many Jews were there 70 years ago? 14 million? Today? 14 million?

It doesn't take a mathematician to anyalyze these numbers.

Thousands of Palestinians go to Israeli hospitals and get discounted prices. Some even get free life saving operations provided by Israeli organizations.

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Permalink Reply by loungegenie on March 2, 2010 at 6:54am

So far, more than over a million Palestinians have been killed, millions of them have made refugees, and millions of them are in the concentration camps. The Israeli forces have converted Palestinian homes and areas into concentration camps.
How arrogant of you, every word in your statement. What a sham. The Zionists came to Palestine with weapons they obtained illegally from the American Jewish mafia to use against the defensless Palestinians illegally and you expect what....thanks for coming and building hospitals for a chosen few? Other immigrants came to Palestine before the Zionists and contributed to Palestine as a whole. Here is a thanks well deserved. Please, your perversity of truth is mind boggling.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Weis on March 2, 2010 at 8:38am

More than a million killed? Where have you pulled this number from?

The only reason they are in refugee camps is because Arab regimes do not want to recognize Arabs living in their country for 3-4 generations as having a place in those societies.

In Lebanon, the Shiite and Christians don't want to give Palestinians civil and political rights because it will give Sunnis a greater share in politics.

In Syria, Palestinians aren't giving rights because they aren't Alawites like the ruling family.

In Jordan, Palestinians aren't given rights because then they might get smart and realize they make 70% of the country.

In Iraq, Palestinians were kicked out because they were favored by Saddam and are Sunni.

Of course, the Palestinians don't deserve that.

If the Zionists came to Palestine with weapons, where were those weapons in 1929 when the Jews got kicked out of Hebron?

Have you even been to a hospital in Israel? It's full of Arab patients and doctors. 30% of Technion medical students are Arab. I doubt Arab philanthropist foundations are supporting these institutions. That institution is completely supported by Israeli tax money and donations from Jews America.

Which immigrants came to Palestine and help everybody? Ottomans? British? Or should we go as far back as Rome?

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Permalink Reply by mika laiho on March 2, 2010 at 2:02pm

"The only reason they are in refugee camps is because Arab regimes do not want to recognize Arabs living in their country for 3-4 generations as having a place in those societies."

++++ It's not those "arab regimes" job to solve palestine/israel conflict. Or are palestinians in camps or not.


"If the Zionists came to Palestine with weapons, where were those weapons in 1929 when the Jews got kicked out of Hebron?"

++++ Well, there was some other things behind this Hebron case.

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on March 2, 2010 at 2:26pm

what "other things" behind this Hebron case?


The Hebron Massacre of 1929

In August of 1929, Arabs instigated violence in the Jerusalem area that spread to most of Palestine. The violence began in Jerusalem and soon spread to Hebron, Motza, and Safed, all old Jewish communities in Palestine that supposedly lived in harmony with their Arab neighbors, rather than Zionist settlements.

In Hebron, the Jewish community which had been there for hundreds of years, refused the help proffered by the Haganah underground when it seemed that Arab agitation was beginning. They trusted their neighbors.

The principle instigators were Haj Amin El Husseini and Aref el Aref. Aref el Aref, along with Husseini, had been responsible for previous riots. He had now been appointed district officer of the Beersheba district. Aref el Aref paid a visit to Hebron shortly before the riots and preached an inflammatory sermon on Thursday, August 22. Rumors were spread that the Jews had killed Arabs in Jerusalem, that the Jews had burned down the Al-Aqsa mosque (supposedly this was documented with a fake photo) or that the Jews were planning to build a synagogue near the wailing wall.

There are many indications that the Arabs, as well as the British had advance warning of the disturbances, yet the British did nothing to try to head them off. There was one British policeman in Hebron, Raymond Cafferata. He commanded a force of 18 mounted police and 15 on foot. Of these, all but one were Arabs. Eleven were over age and there was but a single Jew among them.

Beginning about 3 PM on Friday, August 23, there was agitation in Hebron. People returning from prayers in Jerusalem were claiming that the Jews were killing Arabs there. Arabs began stoning the Hebron Yeshiva. An orthodox Yeshiva student tried to leave the Yeshiva building and was stabbed to death. Cafferata now managed to quiet things down for the present.

The riots began in earnest, however, on the morning of Saturday, August 24. Arabs killed 64 to 67 Jews in Hebron and wounded many others. Babies were beheaded. Old rabbis were castrated. There were incidents of rape, torture and mutilation. Hands and fingers were torn off bodies, apparently for jewelry.

Cafferata and the Jewish policeman shot at the rioters and killed 8 of them. The Arab policemen fired in the air. Cafferata called for reinforcements, but these arrived only about noon, five hours later. The British had a total of 292 police in Palestine and were busy dealing with disturbances elsewhere presumably. Cafferata, not a friend of the Jews, testified:

"On hearing screams in a room I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sherif from Jaffa in mufti. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him."
(Bernard Wasserstein, The British in Palestine: The Mandatory Government and the Arab-Jewish Conflict 1917-1929, Oxford England, Basil Blackwell, 1991)

About 435 Jews survived by hiding with their Arab neighbors. They were hidden by 28 families who risked their lives to save the Jews.

About noon, British reinforcements arrived. Arab prisoners were forced to bury the dead in mass graves. They starting singing in celebration during the proceedings.

After visiting Hebron, the High Commissioner John Chancellor wrote to his son:

I do not think that history records many worse horrors in the last few hundred years...

I am so tired and disgusted with this country and everything concerned with it that I only want to leave it as soon as I can.

The surviving Jews were evacuated by the British, but some returned and lived in Hebron until the riots of 1936.

Ami Isseroff

Sources:

Morris, B., Righteous Victims, Alfred Knopf, New York 1994 pages 111-120.

Segev, T., One Palestine Complete, Henry Holt, N.Y. 1999, pp 314-327.

Permalink Reply by loungegenie on March 2, 2010 at 10:48pm

It is an Arab matter. The west must leave their world completely.

I have been saying that since the invasion of iraq. That's when it really struck me, the intrusion and arrogance of the West. The whole enterprise from the British to the Zionists to the USA. They are raping, murdering and pillaging with no one to stop them.

Permalink Reply by mika laiho on March 2, 2010 at 11:07pm

"what "other things" behind this Hebron case?"

++++ A few.
( in this youtube clip some of elements are covered )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um0ifs8Y-ys

http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/...

http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/...

http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/...

Permalink Reply by loungegenie on March 1, 2010 at 11:33pm

good documentary David. I watched the' israel's Wild West.'
People say, and this is one of the most incredible ignorant clichés you get in the American media is they say "Why don't the Palestinians try passive resistance, why don't they try a Gandhi?”. Well these people need to be told that there was something called the First Intifada. In the First Intifada, the Palestinians overwhelmingly peacefully, in 1987, simply refused to cooperate with the occupation. They ripped up their identity cards and they sat down.
Yitzhak Rabin, now revered as a man of peace, gave the order and his words [to the Israeli Defense Force] were: "Break their bones". They went in and beat the * out of them, so that's the reality.
After the failure of the first Intifada, a fairly peaceful resistance, there then began to be more violence.
Here is the failure of the first intifada. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0u3yljaMTg&feature=player_embedded

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Permalink Reply by loungegenie on March 2, 2010 at 4:38am

This is interesting, kind of puts things in perspective. You know, the myth of Palestinian terrorism. I think this should be turned around and the myth turned into truth, then we could get somewhere. In good faith.
This video is very short, about a minute to tell the whole story. Isn't that ironic? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5apkWBbRo&feature=player_embed...

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Permalink Reply by loungegenie on March 1, 2010 at 7:54am

David, wouldn't it have been nice for the Israeli government to make it a joint effort rather than an Israeli one? Like, suggest it to the Palestinians and invite them to join the effort? No matter what is the hasbara, anyone can see the deliberate provacation.

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