defend the mepeace.org platform from endless blame game - act locally and think globally
I do not defend the war nor the Zionist movement. I do try to defend the mepeace.org platform from endless blame games that bring verbal aggression and defuse our human ability to connect and work together for a better future.
I do not know if you recognize your ideological roots, or you may think you do not have them, but the text some write have one-sidedness that expresses their perspective of the conflict - evil Zionists/Arabs have evil plans.
I am not here to educate any of you or convince you, I am here to invite you to recognize that there are many Israelis and Jews who see in Zionism different merits then what some think Zionism is, there are many Palestinians and Arabs who see in Palestinian nationality different merits then what some think Hamas is.
So the way some people write here may insult and make others feel uncomfortable.
We created mepeace.org as multi-political platform to enable a person to connect, hence have opportunities to co-create something that supports change. When people come to the discussion forum and invest in long posts to prove that Zionists or Hamas are terrorists who need to be punished or that in fact the Jews/Arabs were here first; when such expression is published some members get distracted from our goals, putting their energy into educating others instead of approaching each other in ways that are mutually respectful and constructive.
So I ask the wise and responsible members to act locally and think globally - respond to topics and remember that mepeace.org is a platform to enable the whole community of humans to connect and work for a change that includes all of us and enables manifestation of the idea of peace we all share.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by seansmom on -
wow that's a tall order after Gaza. But...we all know that there are good Arabs and bad Arabs, good Israelis and bad Israelis. Good everybody and bad everybody. The Israeli issue is not a personal one, if people agree that colonization of a people's homeland is a bad thing then the good people can get to work on that. As in, how to turn something bad into something good. We Americans have nowhere to go after total morons settled us on native American's land. People didn't really know that when they came and neither did many Jews know they were coming to sit on top of Palestinians. We are misled by the founders of these enterprises. The bring us for the labor plus they need the bodycount. So the question is, how can we make it fair for everyone (in spite of our leaders?) Because as I say in the family, one miserable person is going to make the whole family miserable so there is no real benefit in selfishness.
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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on -
Bonnie,
Thank you to enable me to present some of the issues I disagree with you
1) There are no good Arabs and bad Arabs as there are no good Jews and bad Jews
The conflict is between people who care and think their solution is better then other solution, exactly what you present here - claim that your solution is the only valid one. I think you are a good person who care for the Palestinians, I think that you do bad service to the Palestinians youth who need freedom, stability and National state now, and not after the Jews will return to Europe.
2) I agree with you "one miserable person is going to make the whole family miserable so there is no real benefit in selfishness." so we need to work on a future that include all the people and perspectives, from the Hamas Familly to the Settler Family so all of them will have conditions for good life. Good life does not mean that any ideology is legitimate, good life means education, freedom, social support, economic stability.
A solution that make sure that the whole 20,000,000 Jews and Arabs who are connected to this territory will he one healthy sustainable social system.
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Permalink Reply by MICHAEL STOLZ on -
Bonnie, neither did many Jews know they were coming to sit on top of Palestinians
It seems obvious to me that you are not aware of the history of the Middle east and Palestine in particular. It is the Arabs that conquered for a short time Palestine . Palestine was always settled by Jews since 3000 year. Your statement therefore is either ill advised or disingenious or you simply do not know the facts.
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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on
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MICHAEL,
Thank you for being such good example of what we wish to avoid in mepeace.org
Your discussion with Bonnie here show us how contradicting and unsolved the different narratives we have, while Bonnie Narrative say that Zionist came and capture Palestinian territory your Narrative claim that this Land was Jewish before it become home to Arabs.
from what I learned both of you are wrong, I can see the "elements" of truth in both narratives but also recognize that each of you took the narrative to a one-sided view.
So I ask the wise and responsible members to act locally and think globally - respond to topics and remember that mepeace.org is a platform to enable the whole community of humans to connect and work for a change that includes all of us and enables manifestation of the idea of peace we all share.
fighting over who's narrative is more real is empty and lead to aggression and hate, this is not a path to solve problems, it a path to enhance the problem we have and prove that they are not solvable, what leads to violence.
Bonnie narrative conclude that we must fight the bad Zionists hence it accepts and justify violent resistance performed today by Hamas and some other extremists groups and by that justifies the aggression of IDF toward the Palestinians population, parallel Your narrative conclude that we must fight the bad arrabs and get back a territory claimed 2,000 years ago hence accepts and justify the aggression of IDF toward the Palestinians population and by that justify violent resistance performed today by Hamas and some other extremists groups.
In short you two are actually attack the positive future and cooperative Arabs and Jews who care for a better future where we have no violence.
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Permalink Reply by MICHAEL STOLZ on
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Neri
It is very disconcerting that outright little white inaccuracies are being given as truths and I have only responded to a snippet of what Bonnie claims and not even its entirety that is so ludicrous as to be simply a head shaker. Your interpretation of what she said does nothing but is simply a misstament of the gist of her thrust and likewise you misinterpret what I replied to which is simply to correct that .
I did not bring up old history but rather what has been happening in Palestine in this century or even in the past 60 years .
The best way to allow for peace is not to make false claims against Israel, Israelis or Jews but rather work on why and how Israel acquired this territory and work on how to make sure that it does not repeat itself. Occupation and land theft and checkpoints and siege is wearing very thin with Israelis and Jews as well as the outside world.
Israel will either be safe from terror or peace will be very illusory in the least. The Palestinians will have to contend with Israel as a Jewish State and give up any claims post Peace agreement. Ther will be no "refugees" return to Israel and Palestine will have limited sovereignity. That is the Israeli consensus as far as I can tell.
misstatement
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on -
Michael,
You said you didn't bring up old history, but you just claimed that Jews have a 3,000 year history in Palestine. That's old history, and it depends on the Jews of today being more Israelite than say Palestinians of today. That's very relative.
Israelis definitely want security and so do Palestinians. Many, if not most Israelis, would be willing to remove much of the settlements if it means security for Israelis. Palestinians would accept a two state solution, and a symbolic acceptance of refugees in a way that would keep Israel a Jewish majority while recognizing what happened to the Palestinians and that could entail settling refugees on 1948 land given to Palestinians. East Jerusalem contains the holy mosque and church.
There must be a way for Jerusalem to be the capitol of two different states, to be a neutral zone.
Palestinians don't have to accept Israel as a Jewish state. That should be up to the citizens of Israel. This is a new condition and has nothing to do with 242 and 338. The Palestinians only need to recognize a state called Israel, and it's character is up to its inhabitants. If Israel wants to be called a Germanic, Jewish, Spanish, or Italian state it should be up to the Israelis, but it must contend with the fact that 25% of Israelis are not Jewish.
What about them? We are in the 21st century. Soon, 30% of Israelis will be non-Jewish including Christians, Muslims, Druze, and people with no faith. The terror you mentioned is something civilians, both Arab and Jewish, suffer from. For me, terrorism entails the use of force in a way where you know you will most certainly take out civilians and carelessly take them out. We need both Jewish and Palestinian civilians safe and secure and their children able to play without fear. There are good and bad Palestinian nationalists and Zionists. There needs to be two states based on 242 and 338 and honoring the religious and cultural sensibilities of both sides, not just one side.
Happy New Year, history buff ...... History is a huge ocean, and there is so much we don't know, but we all know is that humanity is one.
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Permalink Reply by seansmom on
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Basil I want to bring up a few sticking points. #1 the Zionist regime insists that the Palestine leaders recognize Israel not only as a Jewish state (and I agree, who really cares?) but also they seem to want it real bad that Palestinians make a declaration that Israel has a right to exist....meaning everything the Zionists did to them was right and everything the Palestinians (and others!) did to resist was and is wrong! It's like asking them to lick up their own vomit after being kicked in the stomach. They seem to want to humiliate the Arabs like the Nazis did to the Jews! Surely you notice how all the pictures depicting "Israel" by Zionists includes the dome of the rock in the background? Of course they are parading their domination over the entire Arab world. I mean, they feed off it. So my question is, are the peacemakers attempting to navigate around these extremely powerful leaders? If they are attempting to persuade the people, I still don't know where the Zionist regime is going to go. And what about the ones planted in key positions in Washington DC like Rahm Emanuel? It's not like Natenyahu is waiting for the "right" plan to come along and he is going to go along with it. He is KING and there is no reason for him not to finish the job they started 60 years ago! He is almost there for God's sake. Just a few more patches of nasty Palestine to go.
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Permalink Reply by seansmom on
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But what about my peace plan? I just want the rightful owners to have what actually belongs to them, not what they usurped and stole...since they did not! Are you willing to stand up for these rightful owners or not? Trust me you all can have whatever (left) is yours!
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Permalink Reply by MICHAEL STOLZ on
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I am not sure that you know what you are asking for. Usurped? Stole? Rightful owners? Please do get a reality check.
I guess that is the type of peace we can expect from people like you? Or have I missed something in your peacemaker agenda?
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Permalink Reply by seansmom on
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Like I said, I can't see fairytales as a basis for peace. Bubbles are fragile and unworthy to persue. I say that for your sake. I believe that you believe and, well it's not my problem. It's not my thing to go around like a massiah (or a snakeoil salesmen, your pick) trying to convince people of something they wish not to know or want to buy anyway. Or I don't care enough about my ghost in the tree to get anxious everytime someone doesn't see it. It is what it is and we will deal with it somehow. I can't imagine what peace must mean to you but...anyway...salam.
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Permalink Reply by seansmom on
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Michael, would you refer to resisting Jews in Nazi Europe "terrorists"? Am I suppose to just gloss over your inaccuracies and bias just to be...I don't know...peaceful"?
But ok I can skip this tit for tat and just stick to my peace plan. I know you learned where you learned and it is not even your fault. I suppose it doesn't even matter if you believe your parents came to Palestine and actually owned the house you lived in, the land it sat on and the stuff that came with the house. The real issue is, how to free Palestine and create a state for all her citizens.
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Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on -
Dear Neri,
Please explain to us all precisely how and why Michael's
Bonnie, neither did many Jews know they were coming to sit on top of Palestinians It seems obvious to me that you are not aware of the history of the Middle east and Palestine in particular. It is the Arabs that conquered for a short time Palestine . Palestine was always settled by Jews since 3000 year. Your statement therefore is either ill advised or disingenious or you simply do not know the facts.
"is such [a] good example of what we wish to avoid in mepeace.org."
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