My mother and I were discussing an article about how Israeli settlers claim that if they are moved it would be ethnic cleansing. I remarked that this is a perversion of human rights laws which are meant to prevent what the settlers had done to the Palestinians, that is stealing Palestinian land. Can removing occupiers really be compared to ethnic cleansing?
My Mom said, what rights are they talking about, squatters rights? Are there any international laws that protect squatters?
What do you think?
What about the Palestinians' expulsion from their country in 1948? How is that not considered ethnic cleansing?
Here is a video that is the best explanation I have yet come across, concerning the al Nakba:
No mention of the fact that Arab countries entreated Palestinian Arabs to leave and return once the land was expunged of Jews (see "Stand By Us" for actual copies of these newspaper announcements. No mention of the fact that Jewish administrators pleaded with Arabs to remain in the Jaffa and Haifa regions but largely to no avail as Arabs followed their leaders, professionals and civil service officials, and stampeded away in hopes of returning once the Jewish people were exterminated and Jewish property re-appropriated. No mention of the 950,000 Jews from the Mideast and North Africa who were forced, poverty stricken, to leave for the new state of Israel where, after ten years, they finally became integrated in spite of the dreadful conditions they were exposed to. No mention of the fact that Arab countries have consistently refused to integrate their refugees and even denying status to those who reside in the "refugee camps" of Gaza and the Westbank. No mention of the economic advantages to the Arab nations which continue to exploit the offspring of Arabs formerly residing in what is now the state of Israel as these Arab governments continue to receive UNHRC funding. No mention of the use put to refugee camp Arabs so that vicious Arab dictators can divert attention from their own murderous policies (see Syria now) and from their own corrupt dictatorships to the totally inappropriate attention directed at the nation of Israel just as Sussan, in her own crystallized way, continues to do. And no mention of the fact that Arabs who remained in Israel are full fledged citizens of the state and whose political, economic and educational advantages far outweigh the living standards of any similar group in any of the surrounding Arab countries whatsoever. Yet Sussan writes that this video, full as it is of multitudinous of distortions, says that it is the best explanation she has yet come across concerning the al Nakba. But this is par for the course for Sussan in her various postings, isn't it.
What recent Arab propaganda does not relate is that the soldiers of what was to become the nation of Israel were fighting a war in which opposing armies such as the Jordanian entered various Arab villages (Deir Yassein) and exposed the indigenous Arab population to the threats of the Israeli armies by hiding out amongst their women and children just as Hamas and Hezbullah do today. It makes good propaganda points (see the above video) but distorts the situation by not telling the full story nor the details. There is the sense that Arabs are merciless (see Syria today) in their determination to score propaganda points and victory at the expense of their own Arab "brothers and sisters". I would suggest that the Reader seek out the website EretzYisroel.org., specifically the information provided by Joseph E. Katz, for a more balanced approach, devoid of the propagandist effects as provided by Sussan, While Jewish troops were not devoid of committing atrocities (see Benny Morris' research in his revised book on the subject of Palestinian refugees), the root cause of the Palestinian refugee problem was, and remains, with the Arab authorities both within Gaza and the Westbank as well as in the various surrounding Arab nations which maintain the squalid existence of their Arab "bretheren" such as what takes place in my own country of Lebanon where Palestinian Arabs are still deprived of the right of citizenship. As a citizen of Lebanon, I cringe in shame when I realize that Israel, to the contrary, took in their own refugees who were forced out of Arab lands and integrated them although it caused many hardships and many years. Golda Meir stated that "We were almost too successful" meaning, unlike the Arab world, Israel could not, and would not, use its own people mercilessly for propaganda and funding purposes.
After replying (two posts) to Sussan's most unbalanced and incriminating document (see video), I found a new source (new to me) which appeared to explain the events concerning the Arab refugees and their aftermath in a balanced manner. In fact, I chanced upon a website entitled "The Augean Stables", an enormously interesting and very scholarly blogspot authored by Professor Richard Landes of Boston University. In it, if one were to key in the area identified at the top as "Second Drafts", one would find, at the bottom, a piece entitled "Palestinian Suffering". The approach to the "Nakba" appeared to be quite balanced; when criticism of Israel is offered, a sober rejoinder follows it up. The analysis is reasonable in length and the writing is both lucid and transparent with footnotes denoting where the information has come from. Several knowledgeable Arab voices both at the time that the refugee problem first took place and afterwards have been quoted and footnoted. Of interest (but not surprisingly so) is the fact that both the exodus and maintenance of the refugee issue is laid squarely (by the Arab sources) at the hands of the various Arab countries and Arab leaders themselves. The forum which follows is a true concern for finding the truth of the situation with opinions which lay the fault both on the Arab side as well as on the Israeli Jewish side. Professor Landes does a superb job of responding to these posts in a manner which truly illuminates the varied expressions of perspective and fact. In an attempt to assist MePeacers to educate themselves, I would sincerely refer them to this excellent blogspot.
Ghazi, there is considerable restraint in the way this video has been presented. What actually happened at Deir Yassin is much more hideous than the mere body count, which in any case, is not correct. I have read the original Red Cross report, and I knew someone who entered the village in the aftermath of the massacre. The facts are more chilling than you seem capable of comprehending. It is the Jews of Europe who committed these acts, only 3 years on from the Holocaust. American Jews provided the funding, which is something they need to take responsibility for.
What surprised me most about the video is the 1950 cinema documentary about Palestine. It demonstrates how everyone was aware of the ethnic cleansing by Israel, and yet these issues have remained unresolved for over 60 years.
I notice the Jews of America did nothing to help the Jews of Europe at the time of the Holocaust. So why do you – Ghazi - say the Arab countries should shoulder responsibility for these Israeli massacres and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. It was never the Jews of America who compensated the victims of the Holocaust, it was the German people who paid out to those Jewish victims and their descendants – more than 3 billion.
In 1952 West Germany had 8 million refugees inside its borders. At the Hague Tribunal, Israel demanded reparations worth $3 billion from Germany. Germany paid it, over the next 14 years. If Germany could do it, so can Israel. But forget, at the same time, Germany was also paying out significant WW1 reparations.
The descendants of the Palestinians LEGALLY own most of Israel, and they deserve, at the very least, full compensation for their loss of land and for the 60 years they have been prevented from earning a living on that land.
Living in the Mideast, Sussan, unlike yourself, I am witness to the depravities of the Arab people in a way you could not imagine but here's a start: On 19+21 January, the mother and aunt of Hakim Awad, the nineteen year old who slit the throats of five members of the Fogel family while they were sleeping in their family home in Itamar including a two-month old baby, voiced the following on Pal TV: Mother praised him and his aunt, Um Habib, eulogized him as a "hero", a "legend" and dedicated a song to him. You can track it down yourself.
As to Deir Yassein, as horrific as it was, the Jewish state was fighting for its existence and were struggling with Jordanian soldiers within Deir Yassein who were hiding behind women and children. I suppose it's okay to hide like that in your eyes. Many Israeli Jews have, nonetheless, condemned the Israeli part in it and I do as well.
As to not assisting Jewish people in the concentration camps, very few people were aware of it happening and none could believe it. Comparing this with the Arab nonchalance about the plight of of Arab refugees is simply sophmoric on your part and once again highlights your inability to comprehend what is occurring in the Mideast. Let's not forget, I've lived more than half my life there (now in Boston).
As to war crimes reparations, that was what Germany was supposed to do. American Jews gave generously (and still do) to see to the birth of Israel. I suppose now you'll invoke the point that without the support of American Jews and AIPAC there would be no Israel. In actual fact, Israel's economy is much healthier than those of the respective economies of western European nations, at least currently. Second to the USA, Israel has more venture capitalist companies on the Nasdaq than any other country, pretty good when you consider Israel's small population of 7.4 million. What the American Jews did was to give Israel seed money. On the other hand, UHNRC has been funding all the Arab refugees and their descendants in refugee camps since 1948, about sixty-three years.
As to Israel funding refugees and their descendants, when people leave of their own accord or are influenced to do so by their Arab brothers and sisters and their leaders in hopes of returning and confiscating their enemy Jews' households and properties, Israel owes them nothing, not a thing. Those who stayed, by contrast, remain as full fledged citizens of the state. In spite of your statement and your ridiculous capital letters, the legality of ownership by Arab refugees of which you speak is bogus as are most of your arguments. Incidentally, refugees received this "title" from the UN even if they resided in Israel for only two years. And, incidentally, you appear to have nothing to say about the terrible hopelessness of Arabs residing in refugee camps in Lebanon (non-citizens), nor in Syria (non-citizens) nor in Egypt (non-citizens) unlike Israeli Arabs (citizens). Why is that, Sussan?
Ghazi, no one believes this kind of rubbish. Not even you.
Just yesterday, I was talking privately with someone on YouTube who mistook me for being an American Jew, despite the fact that I was being nothing other than my usual self. This is the comment I had made to him, privately:
I used to be very careful to always specify 'Zionist' [rather than just say ‘Jew’]. However, the Zionists could never have ethnicly cleansed Palestine without financial support from American Jews.
If the Jews - and others - who sat on the sidelines had said more at the time, the complete and utter devastation of Palestine would never have occurred, OR at the very least, the Arab refugees would have been allowed to promptly return, back in 1949.
That is why I am no longer so particular about whether or not I use the word Jew, or the word Zionist.
I would like to suggest that the number of Jews who are not Zionists is probably very small.
BTW, I admire what I have seen and read of Jewish spiritual values, but wonder if Judaism can survive the beating it will get when the world finally opens its eyes to what has happened in Palestine.
This is the response he sent back to me. Again, it was done privately:
Don't worry the world will not find out what we truly did in Israel (there is no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians) we are concentrating on Arab terrorists on our media platforms and nobody will assume anything about the Jewish community.
By the way Jews and Zionists are not responsible for anything we are simply defending ourselves.
"Ghazi, no one believes this kind of rubbish. Not even you." So now, Sussan, you have the temerity to tell me what I believe and what I am thinking. You are really quite sick.
As to quoting or paraphrasing one anonymous correspondent as proof of your position, that is just one more revelation as to why you appear to be without a sense of logic and cognitively impaired.
Incidentally, in the above passages and in a series of others written by myself and Kingsley Hartman and previously by Robert Haymond, you never do accept the challenges to your respective positions. You never do deal with them. This is evidence of inferior intellect and a rejection of what Mepeace is all about. You use this forum to bash Israel, plain and simple. In what way are you a "peacemaker"?
Come to think of it, Sussan, you use this forum to bash Jews (see your passage above). That is, plain and simple, Sussan, you're a Jew-hater. That you are allowed to post on Mepeace says something very detrimental about this forum.