Freedom Black Day

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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on June 1, 2010 at 12:33am

David, I can understand he was angry. He also stated that Israelis have no souls since they didn't protest. That reminds me of what a poster said when attacking Arabs last year. I know many Palestinians who say such things to say that Israelis are heartless and Israelis say the same thing. That's not part of dialogue. I was gentle with him and respected his emotions as did Neri, but we won't apologize to you or anyone for doing our jobs as moderators. I understand Adham's anger 100%. No one is perfect. We still have our guidelines and duty to our posters of all races. I won't discuss that anymore.

Now to what you asked. As I understand, there are laws regarding piracy and international waters. Since the boarding was so far into international waters the way it was, it violated such laws regarding piracy laws and such. If we go just based on that, it was an illegitimate act. If they boarded them on the waters right near Gaza, they could maybe argue that in that case. I think Chomsky would label it as a kind of akin to the work of pirates rather than a democratic state. If the people on the ships used knives and axes as claimed (we have no video footage proving Israel's claims), it still doesn't justify the killing of 10 people and wounding about 60.
That's extremely disproportionate force. I can understand a soldier firing at someone coming with an axe, but the military looks either incompetent or blood thirsty to some. Their commanders messed up big time.Jewish intellectual Bernard Levi of France was extremely embarassed and diaspora Jews don't like such things. Also, the same for Israelis. Even if they think some used violence, I am sure some have some questions about what went wrong. I am not saying on one tried to use an axe or a knife. Also, telling the military to board so far into international waters was a dumb idea.

I prefer to say this is a a violation of international laws, laws of the seas, regarding piracy, disproportionate force, and a war crime. I understand Turkey saying they would want to send warships next time and blast Israeli ships, but I don't want to see that. Turkey is a proud country, and many Turks would like to send more ships but with the most powerful Turkish naval ships and fire at Israeli ships that would come near. This is what I understand from reading the Turkish press, which I do quite often.

I feel sorrow for those who died.... May they rest in peace...

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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on June 1, 2010 at 1:14am

David, in my eyes, it looks like a crime against the people of Turkey and Greece who were on those ships. The Greek and Turkish governments find what happened outrageous, and so do I. The United States has done bad things on international waters. Maybe, you don't remember. The US illegaly put landmines all over Nicaragua. The world condemned what the U.S. did. Israel violated international law. I have a hard time believing Israel's hasbara or spin on what happened. For me, it looks like some kind of thing when I think of war crimes. I do not blame the Israeli people for this, but I know Turkey and Greece are outraged, and Turkey wants to send warships next time if some ships go down there. I do not want to comment beyond that it's a tragedy, the Israeli navy certainly violated international law by boarding on international waters, Israel doesn't own international waters point blank. You can't do that. As far as people attacking soldiers who attacked first, I want video footage, but even so I can't understand 10 dead people and 60 wounded.

Point blank I am outraged about the killing of the Turks, the shot Greek captain etc.... and all on international waters. And many people are sad who want peace.

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Permalink Reply by Ohad Bracha on June 1, 2010 at 2:15am

David go away!!!!
Among many other things, one unfortunate fact about todays Flotilla Crash will remain the same: Everyone will believe whatever they want to believe. "Truth is the first casualty," unfortunately. There is something, on the other hand, very visible right now, to everyone. Leaders and the media of the both countries (Turkey and Israel) are unyieldingly flooding the public discourse with language of dissent, hate and revenge. As a pro-peace community, it is up to each and every individual to avoid from falling into such trap and it is up to us (well maybe not you) to demand serenity, amity and reason be secured.

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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on June 1, 2010 at 2:28am

Ohad,

Dave, pardon me, but our mission here isn't to be seemingly on a mission against Israel or the Palestinians or to find ways to tear this or that side apart. I do find fault with Israel in what happened without a doubt. I just don't want to get lost site of the fact that we are on a peace site, and that must be included in our discourse. Focusing on all the historical wrongs of Israel isn't part of that mission. Anyway, I have said my peace on this.

Basil

Permalink Reply by Ohad Bracha on June 1, 2010 at 2:47am

David you are boring !!!

go away !!

Actually forget about it I will go away

Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on June 2, 2010 at 12:12pm

David

You are supporting the continues of the Slowocaust by ignoring the complexity of the reality you sugget one sided flat view that cannot be accepted and with its promiss you support the continues fiight with Israel that you describe as prime evil.

this is no way to enable change nor a path to peace.

The most damaged in this incident is not Israel, it is the non-violence peace activists who now considered as potential threat.

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Permalink Reply by Taso Frantzis on June 2, 2010 at 2:37pm

Hi guys,

I would like to enter te debate from the comfort of Sydney Australia where I like to think I am far enough away to be objective - although how can one be 100% objective over an incident as tragic as this one?
Guys calling one side or another a terrorist for me does not seem appropriate if we want to promote peace given those being accused will take strident steps to play down the terrorist banner levelled at them.
Promoting peace in whatever form first requires no finger pointing and I understand this is not easy given how passionate people are. My heart goes out to those who died and their families - may god have mercy on their souls.
I am reminded of a quote by Amelia Earhart who once said "Courage is the price that life exacts for graning peace" in a moment of tragedy let us show love and let all of us choose being courageous and together we can break ths cycle of violence. Taso

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