MEPEACE Chat - June 26 - Full Transcript

Here is the full transcript of our last MEPEACE Chat Workshop, on the topic 'New challenges for the nonviolent resistance movement'.

For your convenience, I've also attached a downloadable .doc file with the full text of the transcript.

Thank you, Cigdem, for transcribing the whole workshop!

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Official transcript of the MEPEACE Chat Workshop on June 26
Event link:http://www.mepeace.org/events/mepeace-chat-june-26

Attendees: Oliver, Eyal, Gail, Basil, Linda, Hamze, Bonny, Maija, Jim

Oliver        : Hello everybody! Welcome to tonight’s MEPEACE Chat Workshop - on the topic ‘New challenges for the nonviolent resistance movement’. Thank you for coming! Welcome Maija, welcome Basil! Are you two here?
 
Basil        : Hello. I am...how are you?
 
Oliver         : Hello Basil, good to see you!
 
Basil         : Same here.

Oliver         : Welcome Gail, welcome Eyal!

Gail        : Hello everybody!

Basil        : Where is everybody? :) Are they giving out free drinks and food somewhere? Gail, hello.

Gail        : Hi Basil, good to see you.

Oliver        : I’m sure more people will join us later. Eyal has technical problems, I suppose. He drops in and out. Anyway -we’re three- not many, but enough to make a start :) During the last weeks and months, nonviolent protesters from Israel, Palestine and elsewhere have had to face new challenges, mainly demonstrated by an increase of violent responses by the IDF. Protesters in the Palestinian villages of Nabi Saleh, Bil’in, Sheik Jarrah and elsewhere suffered tear gas attacks and similar ‘non-peaceful’ harrasments.

Eyal        : Hi all, technical problems indeed, but I’m here.

Oliver        : Welcome Eyal!

Eyal        : :)

Oliver        : This was to give you some background to tonight’s topic.

Basil        : Okay.

Oliver        : This context is quite a broad one: How can nonviolent protest happen? How to make it successful? Right now, we have people from (originally) Palestine, Israel, Germany and Canada (Basil, I count you as Palestinian if you don’t mind), so we are a quite diverse crowd, and, as said, I really hope more will join us later on.

Basil        : Sure.

Oliver        : We have three leading questions, as always, and 90 minutes to discuss a highly relevant topic, especially in the context of the ‘Arab Spring’. Before we start, though, let’s remind everyone of our ‘rules’. Please say ‘RMH’ before you say what you want to say...And put … at the end of the line if you are going to continue with your argument, and (.) or say ‘done’ if you’re done. Welcome Hamze! An honour to see you! Welcome Linda!

Basil        : Wow, Linda and Hamze are here.

Oliver        : Finally, treat others with respect and avoid offensive language. We’re here to make peace, afterall.

Eyal        : RMH

Basil        : Oliver, I won’t be offensive to Linda this time. Just kidding :)

Oliver        : I hope this chat will be a fruitful one, and I’ll announce the first leading questions in a min. First...Eyal - go ahead.

Hamze        : I’m happy to join you all.

Eyal        : Welcome Linda and Hamze, and hi Gail, Maija, and Basil...I’ll wait for your leading questions and then comment.

Oliver        : We’re happy to have you here, Hamze. Ahlan wa sahlan.

Linda        : Hi everyone. Good to be back.

Basil        : Eyal, hello, and Linda and Hamze.

Oliver        : The 1st leading question (to be viewed in the context of what happened in the past weeks) is: How and why does Israel repress the nonviolent resistance movement?

Linda        : (Hi Basil)

Oliver        : The floor is open.

Basil        : RMH

Oliver        : Basil

Hamze        : RMH

Basil        : Well, all resistance against an occupation, peaceful or violent will be met with violence.

Oliver        : Hamze - after Basil

Basil        : The British did beat Gandhi’s supporters and killed them. Done.

Oliver        : Hamze

Hamze        : I think the IDF want to keep the situation as it and in their vision no way for change even using non-violent.

Gail        : RMH

Eyal        : RMH

Oliver        : Gail - Eyal

Hamze        : So they afraid from any change that maybe might motivate more people to join non-violent activities. Done.

Gail        : Both are good examples. Another one. What if we take a look at Nelson Mandela? Is he an example of one who stayed with his convictions until he was free? Done.

Eyal        : Well, to answer Oliver’s leading question.. Israel is repressing non-violent resistance with violence, as Basil wrote... I agree with Hamze...This is happening because Israel wants to keep the status quo...they are afraid of change... The irony is that the status quo is against Israel’s interests...short term and long term...

Basil        : RMH

Linda        : RMH

Oliver        : Basil - Linda - After Eyal

Basil        : Let Linda go first...since I spoke before.

Eyal        : In conclusion, I’d like to see Israel reassess its interests... and to see Palestinians more hopeful about the power of non-violent resistance.

Oliver        : Linda - Basil - after Eyal

Eyal        : Linda, go ahead.

Linda        : Thanks, Basil. I want to agree with Eyal about Israel’s long and short term interests being hurt by their actions and policies. There was an interesting discussion on the radio this week about citizen journalism, and the way governments respond to it. Israel was cited as an example of a country which lives with the ethos of journalism 1.0, where governments believe they can control the flow of news. In reality, citizen journalism has created journalism 2.0, which is impossible to control... The Netenyahu government does not want to realize that that calls for a totally different set of responses.

Oliver        : (In my humble view, a country is only truly democratic when it ceases to be afraid of its own citizens.) Basil

Linda        : (yes, Syria is another example of the government acting in journalism 1.0 mode, Oliver)

Basil        : Should I talk now? I want to make sure Linda finished.

Linda        : I ended my sentence with a period, Basil :)

Oliver        : Yes, she put a (.) so she’s finished.

Basil        : Well, I think if you are an IDF soldier you are expected to control the West Bank. And if you are confronted with violence or non-violence it’s the same, you’re threatening their control... and this inclued controlling the Arabs here. It’s about a job, not the people. Done.

Linda        : RMH

Oliver        : Linda

Linda        : I have a question to which someone might have an answer. Basil is certainly right about the IDF recruits having to ‘control’ the West Bank. How much do peace organizations reach out to IDF soldiers, or to 17-year-olds to give them a chance to meet Palestinians? Should we try to organize peace cafes where soldiers can meet ordinary citizens in Beit Jalla?

Eyal        : RMH

Oliver        : Eyal

Linda        : (.)

Eyal        : We organize Peace Cafes... The challenge is that you’re talking about hundreds of thousands of young Israelis who are educated according to a common dogma... We are ‘victims’, ‘they want to kill us’, etc...

Oliver        : (but part of that ‘dogma’ is also that ‘we’ must never allow anybody anymore to control us... IDF soldiers are proud of what Israel has achieved so far) Eyal, I know you were in Nabi Saleh two weeks ago. Would you tell us something about what you have experienced there?

Eyal        : So while MEPEACE is open to everyone... and focuses especially on young... the challenge is great. Yes, Oliver... we must serve as a platform to overcome dogmas... Well, Oliver asks about Nabi Saleh...

Basil        : RMH

Oliver        : Basil - after Eyal

Eyal        : There’s a new movement of non-violent resistance... Gershon Baskin invited Israelis to join him in Nebi Saleh...

Oliver        : (welcome Bonny)

Eyal        : It was most unpleasant, I was arrested along with a friend, we were taken to Israeli Police station, fingerprinted, photos, investigation and release... There is a judicial process now... and I’m scared... but this is part of the process...

Oliver        : Did they indicate a reason for the arrest?

Eyal        : I have also been ‘distanced’ from Nebi Saleh by the army...

Basil        : Distanced? Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Eyal        : Thank you... There allegation is that my friend and I tried to overcome an army roadblock against orders in a closed military zone.

Linda        : What does ‘overcome a roadblock’ mean?

Eyal        : (The area was closed by the army that same morning - we didn’t know...)

Gail        : RMH

Eyal        : Well, we were stopped by the military at the entrance of Nebi Saleh, we turned around and tried to enter at another entrance, were stopped there and arrested.

Oliver        : Gail - after Basil and Eyal

Bonny        : Hi reading

Eyal        : (distanced means I face punishment if I try again in the near future)

Oliver        : Hi Bonny

Gail        : Eyal - you will be like Nelson Mandela, will he be a role model for you? Could be a learning experience, despite the challenges... There are the words that are surfacing... control and free (with choices). How do we get there? With Israel and Palestine... other countries, as well? (.)

Oliver        : Basil, it’s your turn (after that, we turn to the 2nd leading question) (Eyal, thanks for being so open about what had happened to you)

Linda        : (It should be well publicized, Oliver)

Basil        : As far as Linda’s point, it’s hard to reach soldiers directly. They are not about thinking, but maintaining control, and they get angry if you mess with the control, and they don’t care about the Palestinians, which is normal for them, it’s an occupation.

Linda        : RMH

Oliver        : (don’t forget, though, that we are not talking about professional soldiers here, most are really young conscripts). Linda.

Bonny        : RMH

Linda        : This will be short. Basil -- that is why I also mentioned 17 year olds. Maybe at Mepeace we should focus on activities for high school students before they go to the army. A peace cafe near every high school.

Oliver        : Bonny

Bonny        : As soon as you can do a viewing of a movie I am please do. It conveys how we are connected. Get us past I am greater mode. Jewish have forgotten the goal. It is not Israel. It is not the Messiah. The goal is to get back to Edan. The path is tolerance. To (accept) each other, no embrace each other differences.

Linda        : RMH
Oliver        : Linda, after Bonny is finished - then 2nd leading question

Bonny         : And allow the sparks to rise.

Oliver        : Linda - 2nd leading question

Linda        : Bonny, might I respectfully suggest that in Judaism the goal is not to get back to Eden. Eden is a time of darkness and unconsciousness, and Adam and Eve were expelled to fulfill a mandate of creation...

Jim        : (joining late, from North Carolina, US)

Oliver        : Welcome Jim!

Linda        : the goal is always Jerusalem and Eretz Israel, the problem today is that these religious concepts have been idologized literally to death.

Bonny        : RMH

Oliver        : Let’s announce the 2nd leading question: What, in your view, are possible ways of coping with the increase of violence, while still clinging to peaceful methods? (Linda, Bonny, please discuss these theological questions in private you wish.. Our time is too limited to turn away from our topic. Thanks for understanding.)

Bonny        : Yes still RMH

Oliver        : Bonny

Jim        : Oliver - as someone in the US, I wish there was more discussion of it here.

Bonny        : Should I go?

Oliver        : No, of course not - I only ask everybody to stay with the topic.

Bonny        : No I mean go on, my turn

Oliver        : Yes

Bonny        : Ok. In my studies of NLP we had a program about decision (strategy), motivation and conviction.

Jim        : I know, because a number of people have indicated this to me, that they feel intimidated to bring it up. But I think, or wonder, if there is also a drifting away from organized Judaism by those born Jewish (I’m not). Which means the organized Jewish community becomes more conservative by way of driving away liberals and moderates.

Eyal        : RMH

Oliver        : (Jim - please say ‘RMH’ before you speak... and, please, theology is not our topic tonight  )

Bonny        : Jim RMH mean raise my hand

Oliver        : Eyal

Jim        : ahh --  oops

Bonny        : I’ll go on

Oliver        : (It’s not that we do not wanna talk about that - the thing is that it’s not our topic)

Basil        : Also part of Mepeace rules we don’t engage in religious discussions and preaching to respect Jews and Muslims.

Bonny        : Ok so decision strategy, motivation and conviction.

Oliver        : Eyal - after Bonny is finished

Bonny        : We learned we needed to introduce a proposal in the other person’s formula, and not in ours. I give up.

Eyal        : Well, to answer Jim’s question, Yes - there is a moving away from Judaism by born Jews like me... I am Jewish by principle, but don’t practice the rituals as many others... Now to answer Oliver’s question... Oliver asks in his 2nd leading question: ‘What are ways for coping with violence...’ Education... and practice... I mean we must educate and inform, and we must also practice what we preach... I’d like to see more people ‘practice’ nonviolence. Thanks for the question. What are ways you all see for overcoming violence?

Jim        : RMH. Bye.

Oliver        : Jim

Linda        : Bonny -- could you please repeat what you were trying to tell us before you were interrupted so many times? Too late, Bonny is gone. Please folks, adhere to the guidelines for discussion.

Basil        : She’s gone, Linda.

Jim        : I can see how this medium privileges folks who can type faster. As for the nonviolence question, I heard a good comment from peace studies professor Jorgen Johansen, who noted that the Army will spend 6-12 months training someone before they send them out in the field, but we in the peace movement don’t emphasize training, nor learning from mistakes and experience enough. Thanks (is there a signal for -- that’s all I have to say for now?)

Basil        : RMH

Oliver        : Basil

Basil        : Eyal and Oliver and Linda, Jim brings up a very good idea. It would be good for Mepeace to have a peace course of a certain duration with a certain content. Done.

Jim        : RMH

Oliver        : Jim

Linda        : RMH

Jim        : (actually, I need a minute - someone else first) Go Linda.

Oliver        : Linda - Jim

Linda        : Basil -- educational activities are something we very much want to get involved in at Mepeace. There is a wealth of materials online, and we want to make them accessible. But we also need a mentoring program for people who need support when they self-study. Would you be interested in being a mentor? (To be stored for future reference).

Basil        : RMH

Linda        : Jim, please go on. Jim, then Basil.

Jim        : In 1977, I had the privilege of walking into the office of nonviolence guru Gene Sharp and him spending an hour with me. He was good at theory, but the people who implemented it well were the Movement for a New Society, based out of Philadelphia 1974-82. Gene Sharps work is publicized by http://www.nonviolent-conflict.org who put on a 20 person global seminar at Tufts in Boston last week. ICNC has some global webinars on this, but of course there are many Palestinians schooled in nonviolence -- the US peace community is looking at the peace flotilla right now.

Linda        : (Jim, if you have more to say, write ‘…’)
Jim        : Thanks. That all - gotcha.

Oliver        : Basil

Linda        : (to end write ‘.’)

Basil        : I meant that Mepeace could have an organized training course a certain time of the year over a certain time period with certain content. Done.

Oliver        : This idea somehow brings us to our 3rd and final leading question: How can mepeace.org (and other new and traditional media) assist with promoting and implementing peaceful resistance against the occupation?

Jim        : RMH

Oliver        : Jim

Jim        : I’m a big fan of collaboration... and when people focus only on what THEY do it drives me up a wall... so I would ask what is going on with A - the flotilla, B - the seeds of peace camp, and maybe make a directory so that... Thomas Friedman of the NYT would not say ‘where is there nonviolence in Israel/Palestine’? Thanks.

Basil        : RMH

Oliver        : (collaboration is an important issue. mepeace.org is a quite appropriate platform for promoting organizational collaboration). Basil.

Basil        : Linda, Oliver, Eyal et al...

Eyal        : RMH

Oliver        : Eyal - after Basil

Basil        : Would it be strange to have a peace-maker certification program? Go ahead, Eyal. Sorry, done.

Jim        : RMH

Oliver        : Jim - after Eyal

Eyal        : Yeah, thanks... to answer Oliver’s question... What can mepeace.org do? Firstly, I agree with Jim and Oliver... we can encourage collaboration... especially on the net. Secondly, we can inform people everywhere about non-violence, and non-violent resistance action... Thirdly, and finally, we can inspire non-violent resistance if we create a community where people can tell their story and read of others’ peaceful ways.

Oliver        : Jim

Eyal        : (I encourage anyone who wants to contribute to stay for the volunteer chat)

Jim        : I’d be happy to have a Skype conversation. I’m so delighted to live in this world the last 9 months, where I am more global than I have been in the previous 52 years but each of the digital methods has their weaknesses. I DO like the rapidity for skype. Thanks.

Oliver        : (Jim, we have regular Skype Conference Calls for Compassion.. you’re welcome to join next time. Next date TBA)

Linda        : RMH

Oliver        : … and yes, I’d be glad to see you at the Volunteer Chat, here right after this workshop. Linda.

Linda        : Eyal mentioned the importance of informing people about non-violence. That is SOOO important. But what constitutes the act of informing? carrying news items? announcing events? people tend to respond to emotionally laden material. should we be carrying stories about ordinary people who display non-violent behaviour and strategies? Done.

Gail        : RMH

Oliver        : Gail

Jim        : RMH

Oliver        : Jim - after Gail

Gail        : Steve Jobs just shared an interesting line in his book. The insightful line from Steve Jobs is: ‘Introducing the antagonist (the problem) rallies the audience around the hero (the solution).’ With storytelling. Another helpful link is http://develop3d.com/comment/ebooks-a-new-era-in-reading
How can we harness this technology and educational value in Mepeace?

Eyal        : RMH

Oliver        : Jim - Eyal

Gail        : that reinforces with Eyal, Jim and Linda are conveying.
Jim        : I repeat my offer of a Skype call. I could share some thoughts on the history of nonviolence since 1977 (and I’ve read about it beforehand). It’s an art like carpentry, altho clearly from Tahrir Sq sometimes people are able to practice en masse well.

Oliver        : (I repeat that we regularly offer Skype Calls - next date TBA :) )

Jim        : Thanks. I meant -- this afternoon, with a coreperson.

Oliver        : You will find it under the ‘Events’ tab.

Eyal        : Okay, first of all, I invite you, JIM, to email me your idea for a Skype call - email me directly at eyal@mepeace.org... Oliver and I will follow up on your idea...

Linda        : RMH

Eyal        : Second, I second Gail’s call for using technology...

Oliver        : Linda - after Eyal

Eyal        : We are looking for ideas for using Skype smartly for compassion and for new ideas... Gail, I got your interest in new ideas... and you’re welcomed to share your thinking bemail too...

Linda        : I wonder if it would be good for Jim to write his experiences in a blog, where we could all access it. And I second Gail’s love of e-readers. I have the feeling we are heading towards a Mepeace newspaper that is downloadable. (Sorry, Eyal :( )

Eyal        : Third, and finally, TODAY the fence around Bil’in was moved back by the army...

Oliver        : I love e-readers too... and my goal is it to make everything downloadable, from Mepeace Magazine to the transcripts of our chat workshops.)

Eyal        : Bil’in is a focal point (perhaps THE focal point) of non-violent resistance over the past 5 years... and today the battle was won! So there is hope! :)

Linda        : (then you love pdf files) (and, calibre)

Oliver        : (sorry, Eyal :( )

Linda        : RMH

Oliver        : Thanks for pointing out Bil’in, Eyal... There’s indeed hope! Linda.

Linda        : Is the battle of Bil’in won? I had read an article this week that claimed there was still a lot of farmers’ land behind the fence, and that the protests would continue.

Oliver        : (the ‘fight’ will go on, but it was a successful first step) Friends, we’ve almost reached the end of our workshop... Now’s the right time to post any conclusions, final comments... What’s the future of the non-violent movement?   

Jim        : Social media is transforming nonviolence. I’ve been following this since 1977, and what has happened in the last 3 years (Web 3.0?) is absolutely amazing. Before this, I was watching a youtube video on the protests in Spain, which themselves came from Egypt. I think global youth are more different today than since 1963, when a new generation came along and shook things up. The difference is that the climate crisis is THE overwhelming crisis. I am an informal advisor to the global climate youth movement, and the local one here too. Thanks to all for putting this on. I guess the volunteer chat is about the happen in the same place?

Eyal        : My final comment, thanks for this chat and let’s keep the faith: Non-violence is the answer.

Oliver        : Thanks everyone for taking part in tonight’s workshop. You were a great - and diverse- crowd! And you are all welcome to stay here for the Volunteer Chat...

Eyal        : Yes Jim, same space - right here.

Oliver        : Please use the next 5 mins to posting any conclusions, perspectives you have...The Volunteer Chat will start in 5 minutes!