Middle Eastern spirituality and the connections
This discussion was started by Hillel Yaari more or less. I have tried to clean the thread to reflect how the topic has changed. Hillel brought up the Haggadah and how many Jews also use the word Allah and it's origins.
Perhaps, there is a connection between the mysticism of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Feel free to discuss this with an open mind.
Do your research if you want.
Hillels posts and Hayyim's posts were deleted in error. Mepeace's software doesn't operate the way I am used to and when I removed some of my posts and Pat's posts and sought to focus on the discusion on what Hillel and Hayim were discussing it removed their posts, and I cannot locate them. I am disappointed that the software operated that way. My apologies. I didn't know.
Using PHBB software it's easy to split and edit threads. It's true mepeace looks beautiful, but it's not so smooth for moderators in some ways. I didn't intentionally delete those posts. I liked the discussion.
Perhaps, there is a connection between the mysticism of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Feel free to discuss this with an open mind.
Do your research if you want.
Hillels posts and Hayyim's posts were deleted in error. Mepeace's software doesn't operate the way I am used to and when I removed some of my posts and Pat's posts and sought to focus on the discusion on what Hillel and Hayim were discussing it removed their posts, and I cannot locate them. I am disappointed that the software operated that way. My apologies. I didn't know.
Using PHBB software it's easy to split and edit threads. It's true mepeace looks beautiful, but it's not so smooth for moderators in some ways. I didn't intentionally delete those posts. I liked the discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on -
Hillel
Yes, the word Allah is Semitic and has its connections of Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic. That's right, Hillel.
Also, the word Allah comes from Mesopotamia, the original homeland of the Hebrews supposedly. The Chaldeans used the name. Also, Brigitte Gabriel knows this full well, but she doesn't mind feeding into American ignorance.
She knows full well Christians in Lebanon and Syria use the name Allah and that she has heard the name "Alloho" in a Maronite mass. It's a no brainer. Also, many Lebanese Christians have the last name Atallah. That means what gives in terms of bounty. It shows Brigitte Gabriel is a fraud who hates Muslims and is trying to capitalize financially on that hatred. Samir Geagea of the Lebanese Forces wouldn't want to be associated with suck backward views. He is allied with Sunnis and Druze in Lebanon. He is not stupid.
Nawi is taking a risk by helping Palestinian farmers who feel like they are getting shafted. The article had nothing to do with religion whatsoever, so that post from that poster came out of left field. It didn't even relate whatsoever. It just seemed to have the goal of attacking Arabs. I am not sure how a Jewish man in his 50s who is a pacficist and trying to do what he thinks is right without any monetary gain connects to this or that. As far as Brigitte, she gets paid for the propaganda. Nawi doesn't get a dime and puts himself at risk. I admire him for that. He can choose not to care at all and say it's not his problem. If more Palestinians and Israelis cared about each other, we would have peace. You can quote me on that, Paul:)
Basil
As far as other posters who have stepped over the line, they've had warnings. We are not trying to play bad cop and what not, but we want the guidelines adhered and that includes not talking down to secular Jews in a proselytizing way or seeking to demonize Muslims, which is what occured. We want a site that shows respect for differences whether racial or religious. Is it hard to ask for some respect from adults?
Thanks, Paul.
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Hillel, all the religions have something that connect them. For example, the Lord's Prayer used by Christians in Aramaic "Abuna Da Bashmayo" or in Arabic "Abana Al-lathe fi Samawat" is similar to the most commonly
uttered Quranic sura called "Al Fatiha", which means the opening. Tell me more about the Haggadah.
Wachad allah chalanah
allah hu, allah hu
layeh, layeh ilah hu
The stanza is the beginning and final stanza in Wachad Mon Idrin/ Echad Mi Yodea?an ancient Jewish song.
The above sounds something similar to what the Qadiri-Rifai Sunnis would chant. They sometimes
chant "Allah hu, Allah hu, Allah hu" to get into mysical union with god.
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Permalink Reply by Hayyim Feldman on -
A fairly close reconstruction, I think, of my first missing post (responding to Hillel's, also missing):
Awesome! Thanks so much, Hillel, for your post about Wachad Mon Idrin.
Is the Chassidic haggadah commentary you refer to also by Rabbi Pinchas HaLevy Hurvitz (Horowitz)? Do you have access to it? I'd love to see the passage, if you can direct me to it.
Even more important, do you know the nign (melody) that was used for it either in Jerusalem or in Frankfort, R. Hurvitz's home? Do you know if they were the same? And most especially, do you have, or know of, a recording of the song? Thanks again!
Blessings,
-Hayyim
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Here is what I figured I would find basically from Wikipedia:
Hu or Huwa is a name for God in Sufism. Literally: He. God. [1]
In Sufism Hu or Huwa is the pronoun used with Allah or God, and is used as a name of God. Allah Hu means "God, Just He!" In Arabic Allah means God and with Hu, as an intensive added to Allah, means "God himself." Hu is also found in the Islamic credo La Ilaha Ila Allah Hu: "There is no God but Allah," or in Sufi interpretation "There is no reality, except God", or in La Ilaha Ila Huwa meaning "There is no god but He" [2]
[edit] Summary
The term Hu in reference to a creator or god is linked to many cultures and religions. The ancient Egyptians [3] and the Druid are just a few.[4]
Others speculate that the pronoun when used by the Sufi (and Muslim) is simply a shorter form of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton due to the similarities between Sura Al-Ikhlas 112:1 in the Quran [5] and Deuteronomy 6:4 in the Hebrew Bible. [6]
Sura Al-Ikhlas (112:1) - Say: He, Allah, is One.
Transliteration : qul huwa allah hu ahad
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Transliteration : shema ysrael yahowah elohynu yahowah achad
[edit] External links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_(Sufism)
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Permalink Reply by HYaari on -
There is a Midrash, or received exegetical tradition, that when the Creator revealed the Ten Utterances on Mount SInai, the only word the people of Israel heard was the word Anochi, or I AM. Another tradition trom the same source states that the only audible sound was simply the letter ALEF. Alef has the numerical value of one. It is also significant that Alef is itself silent, only taking on sounds according to the letter that precedes or follows it.
Thus, we arrive at an idea that G-d is unutterable silence.
Modern physics, or at least from the tiny amount I know of it, postulates that all things are in fact one and that the differences between perceived phenomena are illustory in the truest sense of the word, though they do have relative significance in terms of our immediate surroundings. Further insights on this theme are found in the expressions eyn od milvado/ there is nothing besides Him or eyn atar panuy minei/ there is no place empty of Him.
Are there any corelatives of this idea in Islamic or Christian thought? I sense their must be.
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Permalink Reply by HYaari on
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Hayyim, this edition of the Haggadah is entitled Ezrat Avoteinu and is from the Bostoner Rebbe. The book was published by the New England Chassidic Center, 1710 Beacon Street, Brookline, Mass. 02146; the distributor's telephone number is 732-901-3009. It might still be available, so give them a try.
It is simply the Arabic translation of Echod Mi Yodea/Who Knows One? The commentary states: Zemer atik yomin shehayu ragilim leshorer biY'rushalayim ir hakodesh be chevra sfardit vehushar gam etsel maran ha gaon hakadosh Rebbi Pinchas Dovid Halevi Hurvits z'tsl, meyased sholshelet Boston/ This is an ancient song which was commonly recited in the holy city Jerusalem among the Sfardim and it was also song by our teacher, the holy sage Rabbi Pinchas Dovid Halevi Hurvits of blessed memory, the founder of the Bostoner chain.
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Permalink Reply by Hayyim Feldman on
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Expanded reconstruction of second missing post (with apologies for the inevitable inaccuracies of transliteration and translation):
No doubt many of you are familiar with the brief Muslim affirmation of creed called Kalima or Shahada (Witnessing/Testimony):
"La ilaha illa Allah" - There is no god but G!d (Allah).
Please keep it in mind for a moment while you read ahead . . .
On every Shabbat and Chag (sacred Jewish festival) during the morning worship service, Jews recite a certain prayer in Aramaic, called "Brich Shmeyh" (Blessed be His Name) just before taking the scroll of the Holy Torah out for public reading. Part of that prayer says, "La al bar elahin samichna, ela be'Elaha di-sh'maya." In English: "Not on any divine being do I rely, except on the G!d of heaven."
Now, watch closely while I type it again, this time skipping over a few (non-essential) words:
"La...elahin...ela...Elaha" - no god but G!d.
Sound familiar?
Basil mentions the practice of chanting to attain mystical union with G!d. The Sufis chant the Shahada over and over, in a practice they call Zikr (Remembrance - zachor in Hebrew). They understand it to mean: There is nothing besides G!d, no reality but G!d. (Can any Muslims here tell me whether "orthodox" Islam, either Sunni or Shi'a, understand it that way, too?)
The Hebrew prayer "Aleynu" (one of the oldest we have) says "He is G!d, there is nothing else," and "nothing other than Him," and "HaShem is G!d, in heaven above and on earth below there is nothing else."
La ilaha illa Allah
La elahin ela Elaha
No god but G!d
Nothing else but G!d
That's how close we are.
Blessings,
-Hayyim
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Listen to this video in Syriac (Suryoyo), it sounds in some parts like the Muslim call to prayer (Azan) and also what someone may hear in a mosque in terms of style, but this is from a church.
Quranic recitation:
This Jewish way of praying is extremely close to the Islamic way of praying.
I think Paul will like this thread.
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Nice to see you, Susan. Yes, Sufism is mystical. I mentioned how that some Sufis, as far as I know, chant like many Jews do and say things like "Allah hu, Allah hu". Sufism, though, in a way seems to reminds of Buddhism and Hinduism in some ways, at least some strands of Sufism. I mean the Sufism of the kind which had Al Hallaj say, "Ana Al Haq, I am the truth". I think you're thinking of Buddhism, not Hinduism, when you talk about St John of Cross. It said some of the Christian saints come from Buddhist figures. One thing we can say is that the Christian Catholic and Greek Orthodox rosary is similar to the Hindu mala. The Hindus use malas to chant mantras. All religions have good ideas in them.
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Susan,
I think I was thinking of the following: The Greek legend of Barlaam and Ioasaph, sometimes mistakenly attributed to the seventh century John of Damascus but first recorded by the Georgian monk Euthymius of Athos in the eleventh century, was ultimately derived, via Arabic and Georgian versions, from the life story of the Buddha. The king-turned-monk Ioasaph (Georgian Iodasaph, Arabic Yūdhasaf or Būdhasaf) also gets his name from the Sanskrit Bodhisattva, the term traditionally used to refer to Gautama before he becomes a buddha. That was another St. John, I suppose. That's why I referred to Buddhism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity
I think it's great that you teach and study yoga. I can't say I know any of the asanas. I am not really good at the physical aspects connected to yoga. I know more about jnana, mantra, and read a little about the Vedas. I have read a lot about Sanatana Dharma or Hinduism. So you say mantras without using a mala, I take it? It's kind of curious as to how the Sri Yantra and the Magen David (Star of David) look so similar. It might be simply a coincidence. I think that Sufism is more connected to Eastern philosophy than Judaism, but there is definitely a connection. Also, after Christianity emerged, you had the mixing of Christian philosophy with Greek thought and the Gnostics. The Gnostics contributed somewhat to Sufism, perhaps.
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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on -
SOURCE: http://kheper.net/topics/greatchainofbeing/Primordial_Tradition.html
Diagram by Brad Reynolds, from Ken Wilber, Amazon com A Brief History of Everything, (Shambhala: Boston), 1996.
Here, the top half of the diagram refers to levels of reality ("the macrocosm") and the bottom half to levels of self ("the microcosm"). Note: There are a few errors here - the bottom half under Judaism has sefirot when it should hav ethe equivalent levels of soul - nefesh, ruah, neshamah - while at the top the world of Emanation (Atzilut) corresponds to "God" not the Absolute or Godhead, but these are minor points, and on the whole this is a very good diagram.
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