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Really awsome article on Palestinian children that played a violin concert at a Holocaust survivors center in Holon, Israel (city south of Tel Aviv).
Some good news of the day!

Blessings
Stephanie :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/middleeast/26jenin.html?_r=...
Palestinians Serenade Survivors in Israel

By ISABEL KERSHNER
Published: March 25, 2009
HOLON, Israel — For just over an hour on Wednesday, a club for elderly Holocaust survivors on a side street in this suburban town south of Tel Aviv came alive with an encounter of an extraordinary kind.

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The New York Times
Many Israelis see Jenin as the capital of suicide bombers.
A youth orchestra came to play for the elderly Israelis, a good turn that might pass in other countries as routine. In this case, though, the entertainers were Palestinians, a group of musicians 12 to 17 years old from the Jenin refugee camp, once a notorious hotbed of militancy and violence in the northern reaches of the West Bank.

Holocaust survivors and descendants of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war would make bizarre companions at the best of times, but the Jenin camp strikes a particular note of discord.

The capital of suicide bombers to the Israelis and a symbol of resistance to the Palestinians, it was the scene of a bloody battle between advancing Israeli forces and Palestinian gunmen in 2002. Four years later, a young Israeli man from Holon was killed in one of the last suicide attacks in Israel, when a Palestinian from Jenin blew himself up in a restaurant in Tel Aviv.

Adding to the dissonance, one of Jenin’s militant leaders in the second intifada was commonly known as Hitler, a nickname he had answered to since his teens.

Yet for a while on Wednesday, the politics of the conflict were put aside. The youths scratched at their violins and the Holocaust survivors clapped along, trying to keep up with the changing rhythms of the darbouka drums.

“We are here to play,” Wafaa Younis, 51, the Israeli Arab orchestra director, told the rapt audience. “I do not believe in politicians, only musicians and these children.”

Any potential awkwardness may have been dulled by the language barrier — other than Ms. Younis, the Palestinians spoke only Arabic; the survivors only Hebrew and their native European tongues. Each also appeared to have only the sketchiest knowledge about the other side.

Zehava Zelevski, 73, was born in Poland and came to Israel via camps in Germany for displaced people in 1948. Her three brothers were killed during the Second World War. Ms. Zelevski said she knew about the Jenin camp from television and the newspapers, remembering that “all the terrorism came from there.”

One of the young musicians, Qusai Samur, 17, looked blank when asked about the Holocaust. He said he knew only what somebody here had told him — that these people lived alone as children because their parents had been killed.

The event, at the Amcha Center, was organized as part of Israel’s annual Good Deeds Day, an initiative of Shari Arison, a prominent Israeli-American businesswoman and immensely wealthy heiress.

Ms. Arison said in an interview before the concert that she came up with the idea for Good Deeds Day while taking a walk a few years ago. Anybody, whether rich or poor, can help a blind person cross a street, cheer someone up with a smile or help with someone’s shopping bags, she said.

Most of the day’s events are organized by Ruach Tova, an organization of the Arison Group that couples nonprofit groups with volunteers.

Ms. Younis, the orchestra director, had told Ruach Tova that she wanted to bring the Jenin camp youth orchestra, Strings of Freedom, to perform in Israel. Ruach Tova made the match with Amcha, an Israeli association that provides Holocaust survivors with emotional and social support.

The first item in the short concert was a specially composed Arabic song, “We Pray for Peace.” The youths performed it standing, with the seriousness of a funeral dirge. Things livened up a little once the darboukas came out. Ms. Arison, who attended the well-publicized event, was invited to dance.

By the end, it was hard to tell who had done the good deed for whom.

After the concert, Ms. Zelevski, the survivor, said she was “surprised” and “very excited,” seeing things were possible “not by war.” Debating the rights and wrongs of the conflict among themselves, some of the elderly Israelis commented that the Palestinian musicians were “only children” and were not to blame.

The young Palestinians, on a rare trip out of the West Bank, were all smiles. They had performed three times before in the Israeli port city of Haifa, but this was the closest they had come to the Israeli cultural metropolis of Tel Aviv.

Soon, a staff member from the Amcha Center politely asked the orchestra and attendant journalists to vacate the small hall. It was time for the survivors’ exercise class.

Outside, some of the elderly Israelis and the young Palestinians mingled, trying their best to interact.

Ms. Younis, a feisty retired music teacher, appealed for support. She said that an Israeli playwright, Dan Almagor, had donated violins for the Jenin youths, and that the Mormon University in Jerusalem had given other instruments and equipment, but that the orchestra needed more.

“Israel should give them violins,” she said. “We take the pain out of people’s hearts.”

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Basil, there have been many papers written about the many non-Jews who died in the camps. You feel that it is wrong for the world to have a fascination with the establishment of an industry of factories to kill people, not only for who they are, but because they may have had a Jewish grandparent ... that's yout perogative, and it's not for me to debate what you find important. It seems that many feel that there was something unique about it, and therefore pursue it and write about it. Certainly for Jews it's one of the most terrible things to happen in Jewish history, so I hope that you understand jews focussing on it. If not, then I can't help that either.

Your quite right about the manpower issue, but too many people feel that the Holocauststarted people thinking about a Jewish homeland, and that is what I object to ... a Jewish homeland in Palestine was an active international reality in 1924. That was the only issue I was addressing.
Basil, I'm not sure what motivates you. It's simple enough. "Jewish deaths" is a term that doesn't include Ukrainians, Russians or Eskimos. "Holocaust" is the term used for the deliberate genocide by the nazi war machine, whether directly or through proxies acting for them. For those two conditions the number widely accepted by the Red Cross, which has compiled lists of the victims and how they died, and by historians who note that the 12million Jews of Europe were down to 6 million after the war, that it it was a civilian population etc. ... put the number of Shoah dead at 6 million.

The bottom line is, do you have any evidence to dispute this number of Jewish deaths in the Holocaust ... which is the only claim being made? If you've read about the Holocaust, Basil, you would know that the bulk of Jews were killed outside Germany, with most of the Death Camps built in Eastern Europe, nevertheless it was the Germans who did the killing or organized willing proxies to do it for them. The dead Jews, though, are no less dead, and the reason for their death remains the Shoah.

Lots and lots of other people died and it's a great tragedy. Certainly the nazis have a lot to answer for. Basil, you seem driven by statistics, so let me throw this into the mix why so many people consider the Jewish loss great. The 6 million represent 95% of Eastern Europe's Jewry, 60% of Europes Jewry and a third of Jews worldwide. Perhaps if you consider the other deaths as a proportion of total populations, it may put a different slant on it. In those terms the Jews suffered the heaviest casualties, followed by the gypsies. There are few sources but Gypsy casualties are generally estimated at around 220,000-250,000 or around 25% of the European population. That's just under half the Jewish proportion killed.

One interesting difference is that while there were many exemptions for Gypsies, just having a Jewish grandparent was enough to condemn you to death.
Mick, I don't know how many exemptions there were for gypsies and what not. I would be more than happy to read about that. It's not pleasant to read about peoples' tragedies, as you well know. When I read what happened to Jews during World War II, Armenians in World War I, Bosnians, Rwandans etc... it makes my stomach churn. I wish I could have somehow stopped all those things from occuring, but it's impossible. For the record, some people with Jewish grandparents were exempted, but they basically had to already have been in the German army and received approval from Hitler or
German commanders. One German high ranking officer said, "I will decide who is Jewish". They were called Mischlings. In German, it means half breeds or mixed folks. I am in no way judging those folks who served in the German Army. They served in the army, they weren't in the SS. It was a war. I don't care frankly that they were part Jewish. I am just saying not only gypsies got exemptions. Some of these Mischlinges supposedly saved a famous Jewish rabbi from death. I believe it was the Rebbe.
I am aware that most Jews died outside of Germany. Many starved to death, there were camps in Austria, Poland, and other places. Many were also killed in the Balkans and Russia. Yes, I read about that. As I said, anywhere from 5 to 6 plus million Jewish people and the same is said of gentile victims of the holocaust. You are correc that there have been papers about the gentiles who died.
Have there been documentaries or movies about those victims? I have never seen one, to be honest.
Frankly, to be honest I hardly read about them in the papers when I lived in Canada or the US.
I am just going based on experience. They weren't mentioned much.

You are correct that 1/3rd of Jews world-wide died, and that's significant for sure, Mick! It's horrible. However, Mick have you considered that if 5-7 million Ukrainians died as well, that it's worth looking at the fact that a huge percentage of their population was wiped out? Also, the Armenians of World War I lost say 1.5 million people. That, is 1/4th of 6 million, but the total Armenian population wasn't even half of that of the Jewish population world-wide. Certainly, I agree with you that the gypsies lost less of a percentage of their population. Remember, Mick, gypsies are often very, very, very poor people. Your average Jew or Syrian or whatever has more money. They are not so educated to tell their stories.
Jews can better tell their stories, they are more educated. We don't hear much about those gypsies.
What do you think? Should we not speak more about all who suffered isn't that what is need from human beings?

You are correct, that a smaller percentage of gypsies died. Sure, but can we underplay 5-7 million Ukrainians, can we forget that Armenians who had a much smaller population than the Jewish people during World War I lost so much. Most Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire and out of a population of roughly 2.5 million in the empire they say 1.5 million died, some give a lower estimate of 1.1, but that is a huge, huge percentage. Let us assume that the total world population of Armenians was 3 million and 1.5 million died. Then, that would be 50%. I am alloting for Armenians living in Russia and others.
Let us say only 1.1 million died. That would still be about 40% of the population. It's pretty significant, man.

The Turks behind the Armenian tragedy inspired Adolf Hitler. There is a chance if the Armenians weren't killed on such a scale, it may not have happened to the Jews of Europe. Ponder that one. Just as Arab leaders and politicians are sheltering the Sudan and have been from massive killings politically, Turkey has been sheltered by non-Jewish and Jewish politicians who are close to Turkey saying talking about the Armenian genocide is not politically good business.
Incidentally, in the US it was not popular to talk about the holocaust until the 60s supposedly because America was trying to cozy up to Germany, and I guess there were also at some point Nazis who were on American soil with the full knowledge of the US.

The tragedy effected Armenians on a similar scale as it has effected the Jewish people, and I definitely understand that European Jews suffered horribly. My best friend who is Sephardic even lost relatives on his mother side who lived in Greece. I am sorry he lost his relatives, I truly am, but let's just remember several groups lost large percentages of their population during the Nazi Holocaust and before that even happened it happened in Armenia, North America, Central Asia under the Mongols, you name it...
FDR, Gruber and me: Zionists stymie WWII rescue plan, by Ronald Bleier
http://desip.igc.org/FDRGruberAndMe.html

Fascinating especially Alfred Lilienthal's material
Mazin, I was not discussing at this juncture what Zionists did or did not do during the Nazi Holocaust. That's another subject. I was discussing with Mick the fact that the Nazi Holocaust was the Jewish Holocaust i.e. the Shoah plus the gentile holocaust of that period which included a large percentage of the Ukrainian population of that time, Jewish and non-Jewish, as Hitler wanted to empty out Slavic lands to create a German Garden of Eden, so to speak, from Germany to the Urals in Russia.

I sometimes wonder if Hitler was taking drugs. I said that people need to speak more about all the victims of the Nazi Holocaust, and it would be also good if more Jews (I have been reading about some who have been) talk about the gypsies, who are more unfortunate than your average Jewish person and often live in poverty. They can't tell their stories as well.

I did state to Mick that the State of Israel may not have gotten off the ground if it had not the manpower to do so with European Jews fleeing to the Middle East. Many of them ended up being soldiers in the militias, obviously. It is true, some of them ethnic cleansed Palestinians as you mentioned, however it is too much of a black-and-white of the history of that time.

Are you saying with your article that some Zionists groups risked the lives of European Jews blocking them from entering certain countries to try to have as many as possible of them going to Palestine, knowing some would die not being able to get there? Some have said that and quoted certain leaders, but I was not making that argument in this thread. I was talking about how the Holocaust was an immense tragedy for the Jewish, Ukrainian, and gypsy peoples of that time. I said we should remember the millions of Jews who died who lost what is said to be close to 6 million people, and some say 7 to 10 million Ukrainians died. The war and holocaust decimated the Ukrainian population, and then they had to deal with Stalin. Poor people. And imagine if you're gypsy, you are not educated, and you cannot really tell your story. What do you do?


May the spirits of all those who died because they were Armenian, Jewish, Ukrainian, Slavic,Bosnian, Palestinian, Serbian, Croatian, Israeli in a way that violates the principles of the universal declaration of human rights and being humane, rest in peace.
I agree with you Basil on the main points of your argument about need to recognize suffering of all people. The pont |I was raising here is important though and not tangential to the discussion of the holocaust against Jews, Gypsies etc. This is because many peopel who keep bringing the issues of Jewish suffering are using it to butress the Zionist POLITICAL ideology. You don't: you bring it because it is indeed a human tragedy. So my interdiction is to support your notion that we recognize all suffering and understand taht political ideologies like Zionism and Nazism are not good even for teh peopel tehy claim to serve (in these two cases Jews and Germans).
Basil, my world is far from black and white, and it is filled with tragedies, and genicides are happening as we speak. But , just as you indicated to Mazin "you are not at the moment discussing Zionists", it is my belief that it takes away from these tragedies to mix them. If I was Armenian and every time the genocide was broached somebody jumped in with "what about the Jews in the Holocaust?" I would be very offended. If we're discussing the Holocaust, let's dicuss the Holocaust, if we're discussing Armenians, or Darfur, lets dicuss that, and if we're discussing relative losses in genocides around the world, let's discuss that. I have seen movies about how the Russians were treated, about how gays were treated ... much has been covered. If the Jewish experience holds more fascination for people and they can learn from it so that such things never happen to anybody again, then I say "Bravo". That really is the main reason for raking over it ... to learn how to prevent these things from happening again.

As to the rest, I largely agree with you, Basil. Certainly if you feel not enough has been wrotten about the Roma, and decide to research it and write a book, I would applaud it and probably buy a copy. I have no interest in the Jewish experience predominating ... my only concern is that Jews never forget, because then they fooolishly make themselves vulnerable to it all happening again.
Mick, for me it would be good for people to remember that concepts of racial, religious exclusivisty have historically led to various mass genocides, and we have not really learned from them as a human race. When it comes to the Nazi Holocaust, when speaking of it in the papers or in the media, that has an obligation to speak of all who perished because the public is generally ignorant of the millions who perished who were not of your faith. They were all victims of a fascist war machine.

In the end, the Jews who died in World War II died in a way after the Armenians were wiped out by Germany's former allies. They set the stage for it. Jews should, of course, protect each other, but what they should learn most of all is that fascism was used to destroy so many of them, and that they must stand for the ideals of the enlightenment, equality, that many Jewish Leftists believed in until the end. Some thought they were naive, but they were opposite of the fascists and fascism did not prevail. At any rate, we are all human beings and must work together for a better world, Mick.

Jews have varying opinions of what may or may not make them vulnerable, and no one knows what the future may bring. There are different variables that will be at play in the future including demographics. It is important to create good will between Arabs and Jews for the sake of their own children and grandchildren who are both vulnerable.

Some people believe that if Israel lays down its weapons it will have a holocaust. There is a problem of using fear to govern how you look at things, and I believe Israeli polls show the young don't think that way anymore like the older generations.
I also found an article about the aftermath of the event on the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7972160.stm

Orchestra shut over holocaust row


The group began their concert with an Arabic song called We Sing For Peace
Local residents have closed down a West Bank children's orchestra after it performed a concert for Holocaust survivors in Israel.
Adnan Hindi, a social leader in the Jenin refugee camp, accused the group's director of "exploiting" the children for political reasons.
Thirteen children travelled to Israel last week to play for an audience which included holocaust survivors .
It was part of the Good Deeds Day event set up by an Israeli billionaire.
Mr Hindi, the head of an organisational committee in the refugee camp, said the concert had overstepped the purely "recreational" remit of the Strings of Freedom orchestra.
'No agenda'
The room in the house of the orchestra's director, Wafa Younis, where the teenagers practiced, has been locked and boarded up, local residents say.
Parents are also said to have stopped their children from participating in the group, saying they were not informed of the nature of the trip to Israel.

If I had known this was a political excursion, I would not have let my son go
Ibrahim Samour
Father of a member of the orchestra
"I have no political agenda," Ms Younis told Reuters news agency, and dismissed the decision to close down the orchestra as "ignorant".
Many members of the audience at the concert in the Israeli town of Horon were surprised to discover the performers were from Jenin, known for brutal fighting between Palestinian militants and Israeli forces in 2002.
And reports from the concert said it was the first time some of the young people had heard about the Holocaust, and seen civilian Israelis, rather than the soldiers they encounter in the West Bank.
"If I had known this was a political excursion, I would not have let my son go," Ibrahim Samour, father of 18-year-old Qusay, who plays the kamanja, a traditional Arab stringed instrument, in the orchestra, told AP news agency.
Neither he nor Mr Hindi deny the fact that some six million Jews were killed by the Nazis.
The need to provide sanctuary for the hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees is widely seen to have speeded the creation of the state of Israel, which led to a war during which about 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled.
"I'm not denying bad things happened to them, but there has to be mutual recognition," said Mr Samour.
Good Deeds Day is an annual event to foster "hope and brotherhood" founded by Israeli billionaire Shari Arison.
"An average man's opinion would be a lot more dangerous if he though of it himself"

Unfortunately for the brainwashed, there are growing realizations among many Jews of the harm Zionism does to Jews ranging from the Nazi-Zionist collaboration and the transfer agreement (see Books by Edwin Black and Lenni Brenner and Naim Giladi) to todays stoking and nurturing of hate by all people because of the war crimes and crimes against humanity directed at the native Palestinians. The light at the end of the tunnel of the failed Zionist project is beginning to shine (see growth in BDS movement and inability to sell the BS that used to sell in the days of mythological novels like "Exodus" and mythological films of conquest and making deserts green). The choice is rather clear either peace with justice (a win win situation) or endless wars tha Israel has started to lose (see Lebanon 2006 and Gaza 2009, lose lose anyway).
Hi everyone!
After reading the several comments about this event, over what should have and should not have had happened a few things came to mind.

1) First-- the event and its consequences have already happened. We can not rewind to what has happened-- we are at the "point of no return" as they say.
Furthermore, I think that we should still honor Wafa Younis (I am not sure if Wafa is a man or a woman), for the initiative that he had done, since it came from the goodwill from his heart.
Think, how many oppurtunities do these Holocaust survivors have to interact with Palestinian children? Probably very slim, and probably too scared to go into the West Bank, via propoganda + not knowing whom to trust (which is really unfortunate). How many oppurtunities would the Palestinian children from the Jenin refugee camp would have the oppurtunity to meet Israelies, other than in combative unit or without their military uniform? Probably pretty slim as well.
Second, if the Palestinian children and their parents had known about this event, would their parents have allowed them to go to Holon in Israel proper to play for the Holocaust survivors? Maybe not (as I feel that some of the parents would think that the government was using the children as political tools).
How about if the Holocaust survivors had known? Maybe several of them would decline too, since unfortunatly, during the Second Intifada, a lot of the Suicide Bombers had come from Jenin (Now of course not all people from Jenin are suicide bombers-- a minute minority-- and the majority of them that did partake in these acts of terror was in reponse/during the Jenin massacre in 2002), and many of them may still have a fear/fixation on what the news said/previous events.
People need to be sensitive, and think about the intentions that people had, and from the good will of their hearts.

Please take a second to think about this

Blessings
Stephanie
Also, I had posted a few questions before on this thread, and no one seemed to bother to answer them for me (and I tried to research them online, and I did not have any luck! )

1. Who is Adnan Hindi? Is he the director of the Jenin Refugee camp? Is he apart of the PA?

2. What is the status of Wafa Younis? Where is he now? Has he been allowed back into Jenin refugee camp?


Please let me know

Thanks

Stephanie

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