Sad reality in mideast
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sussan on -
Bondaris, your comments are useless propaganda. No one believes it, not even the most rabid of Zionists.
This is a peace group; the purpose being to attempt to communicate on possible peace options. What you are doing is slamming those you don’t like.
If you want to espouse the values of Zionism, go and find a Zionist group. Maybe all you really want is some kind of fight-club.
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Permalink Reply by BOB BONDARIS on -
Israelis are currently pondering peace options and they are based on Zionist values. Why do you not look at these options instead of being fixated on yesterdays news, ideas,sound bites and propaganda.
No peace group or "peacemaker" or political grouping will dictate to Israel and Israelis their cause and course of action. Get over yourself. Only Israel will decide-That is reality.
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Permalink Reply by Sussan on
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Bob Bondaris, Zionist values are in direct conflict to peace. Zionism is a political movement aimed at colonizing Arab countries. The aim of Zionism is to acquire Middle Eastern land that is currently owned by Arabs. Peace, according to Zionist values, is to be acquired through the complete removal of the traditional inhabitants – the Arabs of Palestine.
You forget, Israel would not exist except for the support of America. The loss of this support would open the door for a full return of all Arab refugees.
Why is Israel so adamant about locking out the Arabs who used to live in the Holy Land? It looks very racist.
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Permalink Reply by BOB BONDARIS on
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The USA did not support the establishment of Israel at first. Russia and France were falling over each other to embrace the new state and arms were originally smuggled in from Chechoslovakia and than brought from France. The Mirage was the staple of the IAF.
It would be a welcome relief if the USA would stay out from interfering with Israel and if they had to pay for Israeli innovations and intelligence gathering ,the price would be much higher than what Israel is getting now.
Your history of the Middle East is sadly lacking.
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Permalink Reply by Sussan on
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Bob, I’m deighted to find we are in agreement over the need for USA to stop meddling with Israel.
However, your historical knowledge is not so sharp.
Israel would never have been established except for the continuous support of America, right from the earliest of days. Wealthy American Jews supplied virtually all the funding for purchases of land, and then, at the time of the ’48 War, Golda Meir asked American Jews to provide $20 million to buy weapons to kill the Arabs. Those weapons from Czechoslovakia and France may have been smuggled in, but it was Americans who paid for them. I'm not so sure about how you smuggle in airplanes! Past the British?
Even then, Israel could not have succeeded on her own. The USA had to intervene in the UN vote to support the creation of the Partition. Without the US bribing and bullying 15 countries, the vote would never have achieved the necessary majority.
And that was only the start.
Then there is the unconditional support USA gave Israel at the time of the 67' War, and all the other unconditional + financial support, all the way through to today, and tomorrow, and so on.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff stern on
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Basil - THE ONLY ARABS in the Mideast with full human rights are those citizens of Israel.... Doesnt that tell you something? Many Arab citizen protest the state, claim to e agianst it and do not participate in its building, they "root" for Israels enemies to destroy it... even with this they have freedom of speech but can you blame Jews for not wanting that attitude... Look at the Jewish attitudes to other minorities charkesim, druze...
How dare you compare the two....
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Permalink Reply by Sussan on
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Jeff, you are either ignorant of the reality of life in Israel, for Arabs, or you are being dishonest.
For a start, many Arabs in Israel – yes, those who were NOT forced to leave in 1948 – were still forced out of their homes and suburbs, and made to live on the fringes of the towns they had previously owned houses in. In addition to losing their houses, these Arabs also lost the premises of businesses they owned, and these businesses fell into the hands of Jews who were rewarded for their contributions to the ’48 war. The houses and stores of Arabs were looted, and even their bank accounts stripped. Many grand houses owned by Arabs were commandeered by the government, for the sole reason that they were owned by Arabs. No Jewish homes have ever been taken.
Even today, those who still own land are forced to keep it in cultivation continuously, because there is an Israeli law that says any (Arab) land that is uncultivated can be claimed by the State. So Palestinians cannot even leave the land fallow, or take a break from the constancy of working the land. Furthermore, the Israeli government has made it as hard as possible to access some of these plots of land by planting groves of thick prickly pines over all entry points, and refusing to connect Arab blocks of land to power and water whilst adjacent Jewish blocks are connected.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Upham on
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I own a Siddur, and it does not say "you should love thy fellow Jews as you love yourself." That line does not even have the name Jew in it, and the Siddur was authored in the 15th century, C.E., when that name was used all throughout Europe. Look at the opening lines, in mine it starts on page 5. No mine is not Communist, it is tri-lingual in English, Hebrew, and Latino. So when I see bodies being pulled out from under debris, it is to be more worse in Sderot, than what it is in Gaza? That is like saying about the earthquake in Haiti, "let those niggers suffer, the white race is superior." I am afraid that the only derriere being kissed, is yours in a act of self-righteousness.
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Permalink Reply by BOB BONDARIS on
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In a brilliant Chassidic discourse, Rabbi Menachem Mendel, the third Rebbe of Lubavitch (1789-1866), explains that the Torah is not delineating the amount of love one must have for every Jew; instead, we are being instructed on the kind of love which is demanded of us. A person’s love and care for his/her own self is unconditional. This love doesn’t waver even when annoyed or upset about having done something foolish or thoughtless. In fact, this person’s self-love is precisely the reason why he/she is so irked. Dwelling on our own deficiencies doesn’t cause us to lose our self-love; it only causes us to search for ways to improve. The Torah expects us to view another’s faults in the same light. Your fellow Jew’s faults aren’t reason to distance yourself from him/her, rather they should generate a feeling of empathy and a determination to do whatever it takes to help this person be the person that he/she can and wants to be.
No where is a "Siddur" mentioned.
GAZA IS SELF INFLICTED unlike Sderot as a result of terror and wanton killings for the sheer sport. Some people here have a problem recognizing it.
15th century with English- thats a stretch. But I suspect that your "Judaism" is way too primitive to have a discussion so please do not embarass yourself with those outlandish posts.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Upham on
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Unless we want these posts to be cleared by Rabbinic supervision. We can criticize each others interpretation of Judaism, but it is not their interpretation of Judaism that I criticize. It is their interpretation of Jewishness. That you prove your Jewishness by hating everybody who does not completely stand by Israel as a proof of Jewishness. It is not that I do not stand by Israel, I just want Israel to live with its neighbors. That does not destroy Israel and it does not destroy the Jews. Actually, it strengthens both.
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Permalink Reply by BOB BONDARIS on
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Judaism is
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