The UN and Politics
The Arab streets are becoming bloodier and bloodier. Dictators are simply killing innocent unarmed rotesters in teh street. Libya has almost killed 100 - the last 15 were with snipers at a funeral.
Why is the UN quiet? Why are all those fighting for human rights of the Palestians and Arabs quiet?
Why do I feel that personal politics takes precident over human rights violation. While the UN is discussing settlement building - yes BUILDING homes - hundred are being murdered in the street.
WAKE UP TO THE REALITY!
Gaddafi regime's snipers kill 15 mourners attending funeral of protesters in Libya |
|||
| 2011-02-20 11:30:00 | |||
ניתן להרוויח מאנרגיה ירוקה. כנסו לאתר פז לפרטים נוספים! www.pazsolar.co.il
|
|||
|
|||
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on -
What are you talking about? The Arab populations all over the world are discussing this. We are under dictatorships.
We support the Libyan Revolution, we support the Egyptian Revolution. Your government did not support the Egyptian Revolution.
What nations are the dictators attacking? They are suppressing their people. The UN Security Council does not address that in general. Israel is recognized in the 1948 borders. When it places people in the West Bank it's doing so on land not recognized by the UN. Furthermore, there are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world and 300 million Arabs who consider Jerusalem and the West Bank to be important. Many Jews object to the settlements.
The reality is there are dictatorships in the Middle East that Israel in many case supports. It does not want democracy in a region where Arabs sympathize with Arabs under an occupation. It would be like expecting Jews to turn a blind eye to Jews being made to suffer by Catholics if they can do something about it. You are trying to downplay the crime of building settlements. That's all there is to it.The Arab dictators find the Arab-Israeli conflict and internal pressures regarding it a threat, so they go to the UN over it, naturally.
Why did you state something false about Palestinians saying never said they didn't want to negotiate while settlements are taking place? Why did you state something false and say those who sympathize with Palestinians are necessarily against the revolutions. Most people I know who support Palestinians supported Egypt while your country supported Mubarak. Palestinians and Arabs in general do not like the dictatorships.
Dictators like dictators. Colonial powers often put dictators in place or encourage them.
For a second, I thought you were genuinely concerned and considered the humanity of the Libyans and their suffering. I don't think you really care. You just care about your tribal concerns instead of a larger human, global one. Using the settlements to cheapen the struggle of the Libyan people is rather low. It's shameful.
-
Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on -
"What are you talking about? The Arab populations all over the world are discussing this. We are under dictatorships." - Talking is not enough - your people are being slaughtered and massacred in teh streets and al you can do istalking about building houses in teh west bank.... Where is the UN? Have u seen the pictures of the army shooting rows of protersters - where is the outrage - where are the special session.
True Libya, Iran bahrain Syria are big fighters fo human rights for Palestianisn while the murder their own people!!!
This is an urgent issue- people are dying the street now- where is your outrage?
"Your government did not support the Egyptian Revolution." - Israel rightfully so did not take sides - Mubbrak was great to keep teh mideast calm, just as the Shau was in Iran. Look what happened there... How could Israel support democracy fro a people who cant seem to handle it...... All we need is a Suni Iran in our neighborhood.
"What nations are the dictators attacking? They are suppressing their people. The UN Security Council does not address that in general." - Are you mad that is exactly what they shoudl address - these are peopel fighting for their freedom from one of teh worst dictators - that is why the UN is there.
"The reality is there are dictatorships in the Middle East that Israel in many case supports" - I agree because Arabs dont know what do do with democracy - look at Iran, Gaza.... failed experiments.
"The Arab dictators find the Arab-Israeli conflict and internal pressures regarding it a threat, so they go to the UN over it, naturally." - the Arab dictators use Israel as an excuse as to teh oppression of their people. Kadaffi , Iran and teh rest blame teh Zionist for teh unrest in their country..... They teach their people that that have no human rights how horrible teh Zionists are - tell me the oppressive Saudi government is better to its people in terms of rights the Israel to its arab population - no way. Blaming teh Jews has always been a tool in history to cover your own ass..
"Why did you state something false about Palestinians saying never said they didn't want to negotiate while settlements are taking place?" - OK read what I wrote "Let me make myself clear - yes there have always been demands to halt settlement building ALWAYS - but it was never a pre-condition to talking." Not that they did not want to but they did! I dont like taht you keep misquoting me.
"You just care about your tribal concerns instead of a larger human, global one." I honestly do, teh pictures I have seen have horrified me. I am just unsure why you can so easily excuse it. Instead you focus on building homes...... that is not human rights- that is dirty politics.
-
Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
-
You are trying to deflect from the illegality of the settlements. And I already quoted you were Qorei had halted discussions with Israel because of settlements, but you ignored it. So, it's not a new precondition if Qorei said that under Arafat. Do you think the dictators are going to condemn each other at the UN. If members of your community in AIPAC who live in a democracy and have free speech won't condemn settlements. Your country supports dictatorships in the region. When you tell your AIPAC to end its support of fascism when they have no dictatorship come and talk to me. The difference is I don't support fascism. You do. I am against the dictatorships and the Israeli occupation. I am consistent. You are not. You use the human rights abuses of dictators your country prefers to stay in power to cover for your own abuses. It's clear. What do Palestinians and settlements have to do with Saudi Arabia?
-
Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on
-
"And I already quoted you were Qorei had halted discussions with Israel because of settlements, but you ignored it. " - You brought in a quote from almost 15 years ago and since then settlement activity has been happening, not halted and so has the talks....Therefore this was not a precondition if it was there would not have been any talks since 1997....
Fascism? what are talking about? do you know what fascism is?
Definition:
"a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. "
Given most Arab dictatorships if not all fit the bill but Israel....... seriously? I think you are just using words you dont understand for shock value and its a pity, instead of discussing the facts.
Palestinians and settlements have nothing to do with Saudi Arabia. That is why it is so shocking that all these dictators use it as an excuse to oppress their people - "blame the Jews".
My point was regarding the UN and how utterly corrupt and backwards it is. There are huge civil rights abuses occurring as we speak people being killed in teh street and settlements is the big issue to deal with. How many times were special sessions of the UN called over Israel on things like the Marvi Marmra or a Palestinian family being killed accidentally by a bomb. But when dictator massacre people in the hundred who cares?
Like I said settlements can be taken down, Israel has proven it time and again in the West bank, Gaza, Sinai, so what is the big deal? Why not talk? It's just not a real issue....... I dont consider building settlements a human rights abuse. Tearing down houses Jews or Arabs might be considered human rights abuse if they are done for political not civil reasons, just not building them.
-
Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
-
Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[14] They claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism.[14] Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.[15][16] Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[17] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[18]
There are different definitions of fascism. Right wing governments are often viewed as fascist.
Israel is currently investigating Leftist groups in the country and their funding while not doing so for the groups on the Right. It is not exactly democratic vis-a-vis minorities in the state.
I will let that one go. If settlements can be dismantled why build them? If I destroyed your home wherever it is would it not be a big deal? You are trying to use the violations of human rights
by Libya or Saudi Arabia to justify Israel's actions in the West Bank? How does one wrong actions make another one right.
Dan, destroying homes of Palestinians violates their human rights. It should not matter if the person whose rights are violated are Ukrainians, Poles, Jews, or Arabs. Are you telling me if Polish Catholics destroyed Jewish homes it would not be a human rights issue? If Jewish property is destroyed in Europe would it be a human rights issue to you? The fact of the matter is that Arabs are essentially denied building permits to build homes. You know this to be true, and I have talked to a lady whose former husband worked in the ministry dealing with such things. You may deny it all you want, but it exists.
Why are Palestinian homes destroyed and land seized? It's for political, nationalistic reasons.
Your state believes in Greater Israel though in a modified form just as the Serbians believed in Greater Serbia when they destroyed Bosnian Muslim villages. Why else is Israel taking land and placing settlers? Why have all those Arabs been moved forcibly to place settlers there?
What kind of Palestinian would I be to sell my brothers to talk to Israel? Should I ignore that their homes get destroyed and land get seized? What kind of Jew would just turn a blind eye to Jews suffering like that? How would you feel if I asked you to ignore demolishing the homes of Jews?
Would you say it's not a big deal. Israel did build in the Sinai. Do you know how big Egypt is? The Sinai alone is much bigger than Palestine. The West Bank is tiny so every time land is seized Palestinians clearly feel it. The Syrians are displeased with settlements in the Golan, but it doesn't make it hard for them to develop.
Yes, settlements can be dismantled, but Israel should not seize land and demolish homes, period. As Hillel said, don't do to others what you would find hateful for you. And the fact of the matter is we hate seeing our brothers' homes demolished and land taken, so follow your religion and stop doing this. The TORAH says you shouldn't even cut down on an olive tree.
We ask for decency. Expand after an agreement with a proper understanding of coexistence.
If Jews who are Israeli citizens later want to live in downtown Nablus and buy property and live like Palestinians I have no problem with it, but using the IDF to expand to dispossess Palestinians and make it hard to have a two state solution I object to it.
-
Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on
-
"Israel is currently investigating Leftist groups in the country and their funding while not doing so for the groups on the Right. It is not exactly democratic vis-a-vis minorities in the state. " - There is a law that is currently in discussion and last I heard it will include both left and right wing groups...
"destroying homes of Palestinians violates their human rights" - if it is political reasons I agree 1000% just as I am sure you agree destroting Jewish homes also violates human rights.
You keep talking about destroying homes but this is not what anyone is talking about... Please address the BUILDING HOMES. That is what we are talking about here no?
I do not understand why you keep changing the topic
-
Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on -
I think this post is yet another anti-arab statment and do not have any contribution to peace.
settlement building cannot be justified by Libya or even Arab problems
-
Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on
-
I am not justifying settlement building - I just think the UN has more important issues to deal with now. I think settlement building is simply an excuse for not talking.....
Curious as to how this post is anti-arab?
-
Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on
-
its anti Arab as it try to connect two separate things and blind of how the UN works.
-
Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on
-
I am not sure how that makes it Anti-Arab? what does how the UN work have to do with Arabs?
Seriously, dont understand...My point is so much focus is put on Israel for every little thing it does in the name of human rights for an Arab population. But when it comes to major "real" human rights issues no one really seems to care. They just talk about Building houses...perplexes me. Nothing Anti-Arab about that as far as I know...
-
Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
-
Neri is correct that you don't know the history of the UN and its construction and system. It doesn't easily interfere in the internal affairs of states. It, however, does express concern when it comes to violence, and it has done so regarding the Middle East.
UN rights chief condemns Libya, Bahrain crackdowns
Associated Press | Feb 18, 2011 10:45 AM CST in World
The U.N.'s top human rights official has condemned the violence used by security forces in Libya, Bahrain and Yemen against anti-government protesters.
You seem to support settlements, Dan. You seem to say that it is not a big deal to destroy the homes
of human beings called Arabs because they are not called Jews. It would be the same if someone Polish said it was not a big deal of a Ruthenian or Jewish Pole has his home destroyed. It would be anti-Ruthenian and anti-Jewish. This comes from nationalistic prerogatives. How do you justify when the IDF destroys the homes of mainly Arabs in the West Bank? Also, if Palestinians in many cases have Ottoman Empire land deeds and Israel has not annexed the West Bank even, then why can't Palestinians build on lands their ancestors bought during the Ottoman Empire?
If you are not justifying settlement building what is your moral view regarding seizing land where Palestinians who have had ancestors who bought land from the Turks with their own money?
Even if you are not justifying the settlements, you are saying that one should ignore them because of Kaddafi is murdering Libyans. Is that the way to use the Libyans? Imagine if you were born to Libyan parents instead of being chosen to be born to Jewish parents. People don't simply just choose to be Jewish or Libyan and abused. I am not different than you. I just happened to get into a body that said
Palestinian and you were put into a body where your family said you are Jewish. But, we are the same so if I demolish your home you would feel the same since we have the same human DNA. Is it that hard to understand?
I was really horrified with how you used the protesters who are being brave and fighting against dictators to shield Israel's settlement activity. It doesn't make sense. Anyway, dictators are not going to attack dictators at the U.N., and you know this.
Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian family whose grandparents bought land from the Ottomans or Jordanians. You didn't steal it, you paid for it. You ask for a permit to build on that land. You are denied, but your kids and wife need somewhere to build. The IDF says you don't have a permit.
Now, think of it as a Jew seeing it happening to other Jews. You would be angry and very, very hurt if you care about other Jews. That's how Palestinians feel, Dan. They are human. They cry, die, and feel pain.
-
Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on
-
"You seem to say that it is not a big deal to destroy the homes of human beings called Arabs because they are not called Jews. " - Are u reading my Posts at all?
"destroying homes of Palestinians violates their human rights" - if it is political reasons I agree 1000% just as I am sure you agree destroting Jewish homes also violates human rights."
-Dan's post
I have written this over and over and over and you keep ignoring it!!!!!
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DESTROYING HOMES. once again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DESTROYING HOMES...
My points are simple:
- Settlements is not an issue that the UN should deal with it should be part of the negotiations between Israel and Palestinians- Let the security council deal with the major human rights issues in the world today and not ever little squabble with Israel like it does.
- Halting settlement building is a new precondition to talks. Israel has been building settlements , without stop other than the "semi-freeze" that Netanyahu put on in the past year.... It never stopped Oslo 1,2 Why Camp David, Wye, Road Map, Olmert... What happened that it is all the sudden a new condition to talks? Settlements can be removed! Israel has done it over and over for "Peace"- Settlements is just an excuse not to talk!
Please, Please Please do not answer something about destroying homes...I beg of you,.....Address the points I am trying to make
© 2013 Created by Eyal Raviv.
Feedback | Report an Issue | Report an Issue | Terms of Service
