What are your thoughts on calling Israel an 'Apartheid State'? Is the Barrier an 'Apartheid Wall' or a 'Security Fence'?
I am writing a paper at the moment for presentation in a conference in 12 days and I still can't coherently formulate my argument against Diasporas engaging in dialogue from the position that Israel is an 'Apartheid State'. My thoughts thus far are that while the occupation, the "Matrix of Control" as Jeff Halper calls it, is suffocating and inhibits Palestinian statehood, not to mention breaching human rights and human dignity, using the analogy of apartheid in South Africa obscures the historical context of the I/P conflict. This has two downsides. For one, it undermines historical reasons for the current state of the conflict and obscures legitimate Israeli security concerns, assumes that Israel's reasons for erecting the Barrier were for racist reasons, and in the process attributes the whole of the conflict to skin color or religion over territory and nationalism. Two, it overlooks the specificity of Palestinian suffering, and the use of 'rights discourses' of Apartheid doesn't fully do justice to the totality of the conflict, the refugees, and Israeli Arabs in particular. So what I'm trying to say, I believe, is that on the one hand it downplays certain factors that shouldn't be overlooked while sensationalizing 'Apartheid' as a loaded political term, utilizing its expedience, dehuminizing lives lost over causes overshadowed by the analogy, on the other. I think in the case of Diasporas and dialogue the 'Apartheid' analogy is unhelpful because it doesn't lead to mutual understanding but rather engages the 'Other' in a disposition empty of trust and full of anger and hatred. I don't see how anger and hatred will facilitate a starting point to dialogue. But what do you think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on -
Hi Matt,
Even blind people can see the suffering of the Palestinians. The game players pretend that only they (the game players) see the all too obvious to all truth (the suffering of the Palestinians).
Like you Matt."I don't see how anger and hatred will facilitate a starting point to dialogue."
Moreover I think that all who sprout and propagate the trite and overly simplistic and misleading jargon are simply voyeuristically entrenching and inflaming and prolonging the conflict!
===> EMOTIVE AND/OR EMOTIONAL AND/OR COUNTER-FACTUAL BLAME GAME.
In addition, these evil games deliberately ignore WHY the Palestinians are suffering, and exploit that suffering for the political benefit of the game players.
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Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on
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And Matt, you and others are observing a very dirty and nasty Civil War that started in 1947, became a war between States and ideologies and still is not resolved today because for some reason Palestinian Refugees are considered to be rather different from all other refugees by most people in the world.
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Permalink Reply by mika laiho on -
This Israel/ Palestine mess started as early as 1920's. And conflict is about land, not ideologies. Refugee status for palestinians is quite same as other refugees, main difference is that it goes generations of peoples.
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on -
Paul, would you care to explain why the Palestinians are suffering? Would you care to explain why my father would be afraid to go to his own property in Nablus, and why there is a settlement next to his property? They were not there in the past?
Oliver, there are many things that are worse about Israel than white South Africa. I mean Stalin was different than Hitler, but it doesn't change the evilness of both leaders historically. South African whites weren't expelling black people to bring in more white people. This is what Israel does. It ethnic cleanses Palestinians. What is the definition of ethnic cleansing? It entails pushing another people out and the putting people of your own on the land. Yes, there are Israeli of Arab origin, and they have passports. However, they are not equal. It's true there are more mixed communities in Israel when compared to South Africa in the past. There was no real mixing in South Africa. Yet, to some extent that situation exists in Israel with Arab Israelis having limited space to build homes and expand their municipalities. Also, that so-called security fence is not built on the lands of 1948, but as the Hague said it's built on land taken in the 67 war, which violates international law, so the wall building entails a land grab. I don't care if Israel is called an apartheid state or not. What Israel does to Palestinians in some ways is not better than what South Africa did to blacks under its control. At least, the blacks weren't ethnic cleansed. Let's face that. Whites were not going into th neighborhoods of blacks and then taking them and then expelling them and bringing whites.
Can I go to my father's land without risking being killed? No. What does one call that? Whatever you call it, it's horrible, and there is a separation of some sort. Palestinians are oppressed, subjugated, occupied, and ethnic cleansed.
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Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on
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Basil,
Apartheid is NOT the reason why you have the issues you describe above.
Those who knowingly misuse such a word are simply playing dog-whistle politics. For more about Dog-Whistle Politics, see http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-dog-whistle-politics.htm:
Dog-whistle politics is a form of political rhetoric in which coded language is used, thereby ensuring that a message reaches a target audience without making the general public aware of the specific content of the message. Much like a dog whistle, which is only audible to ears which can hear sounds in a certain frequency, dog-whistle politics often slides below the radar of the average citizen, allowing politicians to target certain groups of the electorate with very specific language.
Yes, some Arabs were ethnically cleansed in 1948, from what now is Israel. Is that fair? No! Is that the unjust result of a Civil War that continues today? Yes!
All Jews were ethnically cleansed in 1948 from East Jerusalem, Gaza, and the West Bank! Is that fair? No! Is that the unjust result of a Civil War that continues today? Yes!
Many people in the world have, do and will continue to suffer as a result off Civil wars. The Arab Palestinians are not unique in that respect. Is that JUST? No!
Have we discussed this before? YES!
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Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on
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Basil asked: "Paul, would you care to explain why the Palestinians are suffering?"
Yes! And I think that so can you Basil.
The brief and pithy answer is that:
The Civil War that started in 1947 is still going on on the West Bank. Is that good for anyone? No!
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Paul, what civil war? Palestinians have are being ethnic cleansed still in 2009. The settlements continue to be built and have been built in large measure by ethnic cleansing. You keep avoiding that point for some reason and keep talking about 1947.
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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on -
As the Aparthide wall is political term, so is ethnic cleansing and Civil War. this discussion show how this terms are used when we want to inject our interpertation of the situation and reject the other side interpertation.
I do not think it is civil war, as Israel fight as Jewish state agaist arab states and Palestinian people. israel have importance to keep Jewish majority because of reason it was created by the Jews, so we get what some call ethnic cleansing,
The Aparthide wall term is used for that reason, to inject the meaning of ethnic cleansing while doing that it create a mental wall the disable us from communicating and put us in two sides of a conflict about what it right term to use.
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Permalink Reply by MICHAEL STOLZ on -
Lilia:
Perhaps you have been dozing for the past 61 years. We have created a Jewish State and it is called Israel.
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Permalink Reply by MICHAEL STOLZ on
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Connie.
I did enjoy your disjointed sermon on the mount. I failed o understand your rant about evil Jews going back to the time of Moses. Thank you however for illustrating that Palestine is Jewish land since historical times.
Perhaps you can explain why you so hate the Jews as this is my perception of your ramblings, Maybe you can write a clearer and shorter version showing me where I went wrong in that thinking. -
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Permalink Reply by Basil Keilani on
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Connie, I am sorry, I couldn't read that. It was way too long and unclear.
I am sorry. -
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