Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ohad Bracha on January 30, 2010 at 9:32pm

are you boycotting Israeli products? or products from the occupied territories?

if you are boycotting Israeli products I will fight you not only that I think you are doing wrong I see you as my enemy
, if you boycotting products from the occupied territories I can join.

the fact that all that is happening in a country that cooperated with the Nazis and have a long long history of colonialism and racism that still going on today is pure hypocrisy any way you look at it.

if you ask me.

don't test us Israelis, don't push us to the corner , we will fight back and we will win because in the over all terms of things as long as you are an hypocrite we are right and you are wrong .

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Permalink Reply by Richard Gill on January 31, 2010 at 9:45am

Dear Ohad,

"the fact that all that is happening in a country that cooperated with the Nazis and have a long long history of colonialism and racism that still going on today is pure hypocrisy any way you look at it" is quite an insult to Dutch people!

Rotterdam was bombed flat. The country was occupied by the Nazi's. Many people fought against the occupation. Many people lost their lives trying to shelter Jews. Some people collaborated. Most people tried to survive somehow.

Every major European country has a long history of colonialism. Racism is everywhere.

The young people who demonstrate in a supermarket against Israel are the same people who fight against racism and against the fascist movement of the politician Geert Wilders.

The Netherlands used to be consistently and deeply pro Israel. This has completely changed in the last 10, 20 years. People feel sick about the continuing injustice and violence.

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Permalink Reply by Ohad Bracha on January 31, 2010 at 7:42pm

Richard I am glad you got insulted

Maybe be you should re- read some of the comments you regularly leave on this site about the Israeli people.

No nation is perfect and Holland is one of these non perfect nation , Israel is one too and Palestine.

Israel is doing a lot of wrong stuff but so does its neighbors and the EU and Russia and the US and basically any nation.

the public opinion in the world changed BC Israel made mistakes but also BC of the a billion dollar industry of Arab propaganda , mostly noticeable in european countries today.

There is a miss used of the Holocaust by the right wing in Israel and the US , but may be you want to also look on the industry around the Nakaba .

there is a lot of hypocrisy and that hypocrisy helps keeping the conflict


there is a solution acceptable by most Israelis and most palestinians this solution also have an international consensus .

but the Israeli palestinian conflict has nothing to do with the hypocrisy I am talking about. that hypocrisy is much bigger then the conflict

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Permalink Reply by Richard Gill on February 1, 2010 at 9:52pm

Dear Ohad, One can respect a person without respecting their opinions. I know and love many Israeli's. I am deeply ashamed of the bad things in the histories of my mother country Britain and my adopted country Holland; I am very proud of the great achievements which have come from those countries. I do have strong opinions about politics and about religion. I don't have opinions about "the Israeli people". I don't intend to insult anyone, except for war-mongers and rabble-rousers and biggots. I absolutely agree that there is a lot of hypocracy and that hypocracy feeds the conflict. I agree that there is a lot of propaganda, on both sides. There is also a lot of ignorance, and a lot of fear, and that feeds the conflict too. Tell me please, what is the solution acceptable to most Israeli's and most Palestinians, which also has an international consensus. Yours, Richard.

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Permalink Reply by Ohad Bracha on February 1, 2010 at 11:43pm

Hi Richard the solution is the mainstream solution in Israel today ,

the Israeli people and Palestinian people voted time after time in favor of this solution ,

co existing of both Israel and Palestine by:

A. stopping the Israeli occupation on the west bank.

B. creating a Palestinian state base on the pre 6 days war borders in gaza and the west bank

the UN voted for that solution time after time as well , usually the only opposition is the US and Israel BC both countries think that this decision should be made in negotiations with the Palestinian people . and the result should be the end of the conflict .

As an Israeli I think that a UN decision is good enough by it self , Israel could withdraw to the pre 1967 borders with out negotiations and without a united Palestinian Gov. or a Palestinian partner .

Obviously negotiations are better .

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Permalink Reply by Richard Gill on February 2, 2010 at 4:56am

Thanks Ohad, I would drink to that with you, A and B seem to me (and I think to many Dutch and British people too) to be exactly what ought to be done. And Israel could make a first move by taking step A. There would be incredibly strong international support for Israel after step A happened. The next move would be B. Why do young Dutch people get upset and demonstrate in my local supermarket about Israeli products? Because of A. Personally I don't think they are responding to multi-million arab funded pro-Palestinian propaganda. They are sick of seeing the Israel government giving way to extremist (settler) elements intent on colonisation of the entire West Bank. People here hate islamic extremism as much as anyone else. People perceive the continuing injustice in Palestine as being a major fuel to young muslims all over the world to turn to jihad (which led to the disgusting murder of a beloved Dutch writer and film-maker on the streets of Amsterdam). The apparent US support of this injustice makes this so incendiary.

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Permalink Reply by Ohad Bracha on February 2, 2010 at 6:26am

Hi Richard

see this is where you are wrong the "European kids " as you call them have no right to judge me.

these kids in Europe today three generation after WW2 are completely free, they are part of the European union and have no guilt or enemies.

me on the other end, three generations after WW2 l lost any rights my family had in Europe and I am fighting to build a place for my self and for my family.

this conflict is complicated and you got to remember that Israel is a young country.
after 1967 Israel won a war that showed the Arab neighbors that Israel is here to stay. the argument turned form the survival of Israel to ending the occupation.

you need to remember that Israel always accepted the two states solution. the Occupations and the argument of the right wing in Israel was possible only BC Arab leaders time after time promise to destroy Israel and wipe it off the map.

By the way this specific email came for an Arab sure not from young europeans at the super market.

the occupation is wrong yes , it will end soon , and these 40 years will be forgotten in Israels history . surly if the european kids can forget their history we will be fine

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Permalink Reply by Lemuel Melamed on February 2, 2010 at 12:01pm

כל הכבוד אוהד
אתה מוזמן לשלוח את תגובתך ל
majdbeltaji@gmail.com
Majd Beltaji
Public Relations officer
The Palestinian Center for Peace and Democracy ( PCPD)
Edward Said Street
Ramallah / Palestine זה מייל של אותה בחורה שמפזרת את דיברי נאצה האלה

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Permalink Reply by Lemuel Melamed on February 2, 2010 at 1:01pm

i am against boycott! believe that by developing economy of both sides we can improve the situation and brake froth towards peace talks.
the e-mail that i got is opposite to what i think as rational peacemaker!
we need to blockade inciters & radicals & fashists & ant- Semites like Majd Beltaji >they increase hate between Palestinians and Israeli's.

--
Keep in touch!

God bless!

Sincerely yours,

Lemuel Melamed

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Permalink Reply by Manal Anna on January 30, 2010 at 10:19pm

Hi Lemuel,
It is interesting for me to know what do you think about the email you got on boycotting israeli products.

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Permalink Reply by Lemuel Melamed on February 2, 2010 at 11:55am

i really think that is a good example of things that increasing hatred between Israeli's and Palestinians.
the biggest problem in my opinion that the people remain silent and dont respond to this incite.

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Permalink Reply by Stewart Mills on January 30, 2010 at 10:35pm

Hi Lemuel,

This is a very difficult issue that raises a lot of tension and anger.

There is indeed a growing movement of people who feel led by their conscience to support the boycott campaign.

Confusion and difference occurs between whether the campaign should be directed just at the settler products or at Israel as a whole.

Palestinians as a consequence of the occupation have been boycotted for decades.

Boycott's have been successful over the centuries for various forms of social and political change whether it is boycotting English tea (aka the Boston Tea Party), boycotting the slave trade, boycotting segregated buses (Montgomery bus boycott), the boycot of Apartheid South Africa or the boycotting multinationals who have been involved in exploitation, human rights abuses or environmental eg Shell, Nestle, Reebok.

One cannot assume they know the motivations of those who choose to boycott (for example those shown in the youtube clip). To call them anti-semitic because of their nationality is racist. To be legitimately called anti-semitic you need to have facts about the person. To jump to the conclusion that someone is anti-semitic because they are involved in a boycott of Israeli-settler products or of Israel is lazy reasoning.

People's motivations for being involved in boycotts are broad. In the main the leaders of the boycott movement are humanitarians who see the harm that is occurring from the occupation/control of Gaza and the West Bank is greater than the harm caused by those Israelis who will be affected by the boycott. This is a risk they are willing to make.

The challenge is for the leaders of such a boycott to clearly show the average Jewish-Israeli citizen that the boycott is not against them or Jewish people, but is against the occupation. Naomi Klein calls the boycott a tactic, it is not a fundamentalist position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_action

Omar Karmi, Boycott of Israeli settlers' products picks up speed, 6 January 2010

The manager of a Ramallah branch of the supermarket chain Bravo, he said his store had not stocked any goods that originated in settlements for more than a year, and even then it was only one item, a chocolate syrup….
http://www.bdsmovement.net/?q=node/618


Cairo Decalration, 1 January 2010
http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?id=5269

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

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