Whose side are you on?

Tim tells us it is wrong to take sides.

Well, this is a conflict. You too, Tim, have taken a side, although you like to imagine – nay even tell us - you are impartial.

I support the Arabs of Palestine because I know Palestinians were forced to leave their homes, and never allowed to return. If they do not return, and are never paid good compensation (and Israel remains in good standing with the United Nations) then in the future, whenever a dictator mistreats his people, ultimately, the dictator will say, if it is okay for Israel to do it, then it is okay for me to do it.

So, this issue is much bigger than both Israel and Palestine put together.

The days when Jews could claim special status were gone before the state of Israel was declared. Even so, it should never have been the sole responsibility of Palestine to support a people who had few, if any, cultural and economic ties with Palestinians. America was the obvious country to come to the aid of the Jews of Europe, instead, the USA reduced their quote of Jewish immigrants, presumably because they preferred other immigrants.

The suggestion that today’s settlers in the West Bank can keep the land on which they squat is a complete affront to all who have even a rudimentary knowledge of land titles. All the settlements will have to all be abandoned if there is to be peace. Furthermore, the wall itself will also have to be demolished, because the WALL IS ON PALESTINIAN LAND.

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Permalink Reply by Igor Gonev on April 22, 2012 at 4:17pm

Lets take it to the next extreme. Jordan is created on parts of the "Jewish Homeland" as envisioned in San Remo and agreed to by Hejaz(Saudi Arabia) and approved by Great Britain, France and the USA (congress). Well over 80% of Jordanians are in fact "Palestinians" Using the UWRA rule than 100% of Palestinians in Judea and Samaria are Jordanian citizens.

So what do you think that Israel needs to do?

Permalink Reply by Ahmad Hammouri on April 22, 2012 at 3:24pm

first of all israel had no borders since there was no israel hell even until these days the people here in israel lots of them in jerusalem in all over the historical palestine do not reconise israel as a state to the hell with it israel it self doesnt ee it self as a state if it did it would protect the arabs living in it when the settlers steel their homes rather than the so called government taking the lands of the arabs in silwan by force! you call this a state then how do you define Street Gangs!

being cleansed!! arabs are you kidding !! if they were to cleanse the arabs who will do their jobs who will buy their marchindis and who will prortect them from the other arabs rage i mean look at whats happening evry year on the 30th of march on the borders of israel and i mean all the borders ,and who the hell are you to say find self respect what did you suffer ever in you life were you for instance kicked out of your homw by any chance ?! for what ever reason or were your father killed in front of you and your family kicked out to live on the streets !! if not the shush your mouth and do not speak of what you dont know ,one more thing your mixing somthing here wise guy , Hamas was estaplished by the israeli intelegence !! secondly now the Fatah people and i tell you this as a palestinian living here the Fatah people most of them work for the israeli inteligince hell some of them got their own fathers arrested for the sake of the israeli and one more thing if no arab before gave you the attintion its not because you are right but because most of them saw yournot worthy of a responce but here i tell you this we are not here to point fingers we are peace makers and to make peace you should not take sides!

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Permalink Reply by Igor Gonev on April 22, 2012 at 4:10pm

Legally, the borders of Israel are defined by the League of Nations,Mandate for Palestine resolution at San Remo. This is still on the books at the UN as the aborted 1947 Partition Resolution is not valid and cannot be resurrected without both parties agreeing. The Jordanian and Egyptian conquests in 1948 do not change the Mandate in any way, shape or form. 242 deals with Israel, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon and not the Palestinians that did not exist at that time.

That is the legal reality as it exists today.

The Arabs of Palestine may have a claim but not through terror and political intimidation. Ahmad, you tell everyone not to take sides while you take a maximalist Arab position and that is not conductive for peace.

Permalink Reply by Ahmad Hammouri on April 22, 2012 at 4:53pm

this is exactly what am doing but in doing so am just discribing not more.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Upham on April 22, 2012 at 8:15am

"Whose been eating my porridge, whose been sitting in my chair, whose been sleeping in my bed?" Why the Zionists have been doing it! Those evil Zionists!

"Whose been eating my porridge, whose been sitting in my chair, whose been sleeping in my bed?" Why the Muslims have been doing it! Those evil Muslims!

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Permalink Reply by Ahmad Hammouri on April 22, 2012 at 3:27pm

exactly who did it?! :D well put Tim

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Permalink Reply by Tim Upham on April 22, 2012 at 8:14pm

Shukran, unfortunately my keyboard does not have Arabic script on it. It does not have Hebrew script either.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Upham on April 23, 2012 at 10:01pm

In 1988, that is when Jordan renounced all claim to the West Bank, so did that leave the Palestinians living there abandoned? Unless, they thought that living under Jordanian rule was better then living under Israeli rule. I noticed in the West Bank, I never saw anyone there flying a Jordanian flag, so I do not think anybody there is yearning to be back under Jordanian rule. Unless a school teacher thought that their salary was better under Jordanian rule, then what it is now. Unless the future status of the West Bank should be between Israel and Jordan, and not between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but what it the likelihood of that happening? I wonder if the driving factor of Turkish tourists choosing other destinations, such as Central Europe may not be due to the duty-free shopping they can do there. I know that Bulgaria is becoming very popular with Turkish tourist, because of that reason. Think about the deep resentment that Turkey had against Bulgaria, when it instituted its Slavic campaign against the ethnic Turks living there. That is obviously not stopping Turkish tourists from duty-free shopping there. The incidents of Anti-Semitism in Europe has involved Muslim extremism, but in places such as Russia, it has been more of a situation of European Neo-Nazisism, and the Jewish Telegraphic Agency has been reporting that too. When can scream out "NEVER AGAIN," but I think it is wise, that we do not scream that out to everyone. Because not everyone has the intentions of instigating what lead to that. I found out about grandparents, aunts, and uncles who died under those circumstances, but it led me to understand humanity more, and not to be bitter against it.

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Permalink Reply by Igor Gonev on April 24, 2012 at 2:40am

It was one thing to renounce its claim ( even though they did not renounce their claim to Jerusalem) and stripping its past subjects of Jordanian citizenship. It does not matter what flag ,if any, the Palestinians were flying then or now.Resolution 242 deals with Israel-Jordan among others but not between Israel -Palestinians. Look up the wording . It also leaves it up to Israel and Jordan to negotiate future borders. Israel has done that and has a peace treaty with Jordan as a result. Israel at this time has a right to determine on its own and by itself what constitutes secure borders and not the UN and not the Quartet and not the USA and not the EU or the Arab League and certainly not a bunch of disparate "peace" groups. Israelis will decide and they alone what land they will give away and what lands they will keep.

Let Europe deal with its antisemites or Muslim extremists-that is their problem, but please do not presume to know when to scream "NEVER AGAIN" . The Jews and Israel will determine that , and no help is required-THANK YOU.

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Permalink Reply by Sussan on April 24, 2012 at 9:39am

Igor, these ning groups are all preyed upon by spammers, you really need to delete this message with your personal email, quickly. Click on the tiny green cross to eliminate your comment.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Upham on April 24, 2012 at 6:55am

If Jordan went in and renounced its claim over the West Bank in 1988, and signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1994, it cannot be possible that they still claim Jerusalem. If they it did, it would have never had signed the peace treaty with Israel. The given is Jordan is out of the picture, when it comes to either Jerusalem or the West Bank. But if the mentioned above is the case, then that section of Resolution 242 is no longer applicable. Israel did determine its own course, when Yitzhak Rabin signed the Oslo Accords. He was not forced to it, but he got assassinated for doing it. Of course Israel can go in and cancel it, but it did not do it, just that the current government says it will not negotiate on it. So it is not the Labor or Kadima parties, but the current configuration of the Likud government. So really it is that Netanyahu will have to put this mildly "shit or get off the pot." Who else has been telling him to do that? How about Shimon Peres and Shaul Mofaz. So it has not been just the pesty United States, European Union, Arab League, or pesty peace activists, but within Israel itself. Netanyahu has never said Judea and Samaria will always remain Jewish. The last time an Israeli prime minister said that was Menachem Begin, and not one Israeli prime minister has said that since then. So unless you are praying that the ghost of Begin to come back. I do not think everyone within Israel is screaming "NEVER AGAIN," but I am sure there are individuals who are. According to the Halacha, someone is Jewish when their mother is Jewish. Since my mother was a Sephardic Jew, then that categorizes me under Halachalic law. So I am not just an outsider, telling Jews what to do.