Will hunger stop rockets?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on December 4, 2008 at 4:26am

You are correct Wafa: "The only solution to end the War is to END occupation & END siege and to make peace."

The Israelis know that. Does the Palestinian Leadership?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dan Smith on December 7, 2008 at 2:02pm

Hi,
I really feel bad about the two brother, teenagers none the less who were killed but if they were to go to school instead of firing rockets at civillians in Israeli towns, maybe they would have had a better life. Even the Palestinians admit that that was what they were doing... sorry martrs

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Hiba on December 3, 2008 at 11:53pm

Carol, I am not saying that the kidnap of Gilad is right in anyway, I really don’t, but there have been negotiations between the Israeli government and Hamas to release Palestinian prisoners in order to release Shalit, and both parts are making constant invasions in the agreements that they almost reach.

Why innocent citizens should be the victim?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Hiba on December 3, 2008 at 11:46pm

Politics and humanity standards seldom meet, so does any politician think about hungry children comparing to powers, occasionally they do.

A question:- Is Hamas doing any better? Answer: No, again politics and nothing more we can add.

Question:- do we need to work on putting pressure and offer the hand of help in any possible way? Answer: definitely

Question:- How? Answer:- Work instead of blame.

It might seem easier to use increased powers to face security problems, but people and children in Gaza will reach a point when they will start to think that there couldn’t be any more to lose than what they are experiencing now and so since things are bad and life sucks so its gonna be on them and on their oppressor, Israeli government must be smarter, they really do

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by windsfeather on December 4, 2008 at 12:23am

I am going to stick to the question at hand. My answer is clearly no. It is documented that the restriction of food supplies or "Sanctions," has been proven inaffective in numerous countries. The violations are going in both directions.

Regarding Genocide; is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2

Critics of the CPPCG point to the narrow definition of the groups that are protected under the treaty, particularly the lack of protection for political groups for what has been termed politicide. One of the problems was that until there was a body of case law from prosecutions, the precise definition of what the treaty meant had not been tested in court.

International prosecution of genocide
4.1 By ad hoc tribunals
4.1.1 Nuremberg Trials
4.1.2 Rwanda
4.1.3 Former Yugoslavia
4.2 By the International Criminal Court
4.2.1 Darfur, Sudan

For genocide to happen, there must be certain preconditions. Foremost among them is a national culture that does not place a high value on human life. A totalitarian society, with its assumed superior ideology, is also a precondition for genocidal acts.[49] In addition, members of the dominant society must perceive their potential victims as less than fully human: as “pagans,” “savages,” “uncouth barbarians,” “unbelievers,” “effete degenerates,” “ritual outlaws,” “racial inferiors,” “class antagonists,” “counterrevolutionaries,” and so on.[50] In themselves, these conditions are not enough for the perpetrators to commit genocide. To do that—that is, to commit genocide—the perpetrators need a strong, centralized authority and bureaucratic organization as well as pathological individuals and criminals. Also required is a campaign of vilification and dehumanization of the victims by the perpetrators, who are usually new states or new regimes attempting to impose conformity to a new ideology and its model of society.[51]

– M. Hassan Kakar[52]

8 stages of genocide; please pay attention

In 1996 Gregory Stanton the president of Genocide Watch presented a briefing paper called "The 8 Stages of Genocide" at the United States Department of State.[53] In it he suggested that genocide develops in eight stages that are "predictable but not inexorable".[53][54]

The Stanton paper was presented at the State Department, shortly after the Rwanda genocide and much of the analysis is based on why that genocide occurred. The preventative measures suggested, given the original target audience, were those that the United States could implement directly or use their influence on other governments to have implemented.

Stage Characteristics Preventive measures
1.
Classification People are divided into "us and them". "The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend... divisions."
2.
Symbolization "When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups..." "To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden as can hate speech".
3.
Dehumanization "One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases." "Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen."
4.
Organization "Genocide is always organized... Special army units or militias are often trained and armed..." "The U.N. should impose arms embargoes on governments and citizens of countries involved in genocidal massacres, and create commissions to investigate violations"
5.
Polarization "Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda..." "Prevention may mean security protection for moderate leaders or assistance to human rights groups...Coups d’état by extremists should be opposed by international sanctions."
6.
Preparation "Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity..." "At this stage, a Genocide Emergency must be declared. ..."
7.
Extermination "It is "extermination" to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human." "At this stage, only rapid and overwhelming armed intervention can stop genocide. Real safe areas or refugee escape corridors should be established with heavily armed international protection."
8.
Denial "The perpetrators... deny that they committed any crimes..." "The response to denial is punishment by an international tribunal or national courts."


My question back to you Wafa;
1)is the Militia groups in Palestine a protected class.
2) Where are the mass graves?
3) Where are the pictures?

My greatest question is what is the Palestine government doing to elivate the problem. I just don't hear their voice. What does the minister of Palestine do? at least with Arafat we could see what was going on. detail this for me Wafa.

I would also like to know about the wheat that was brought in by Motley Crew. How much, Where was it distributed and what was the hybred. Was it for planting or eating. What happened to the wheat mill and the people.

The Hamas needs to stop the scape goat theory. It will not hold up.

actions create reactions; sometimes the best thing is the one unsaid. The one who looses is the last one who talks. perhaps it was the exact reaction they were aiming to get from the opposing side.

Let me know how it went with NY. what is happening.
Ma Wa Salam amera windsfeather

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on December 4, 2008 at 5:28am

Yes Amera:

As you wrote: The Hamas needs to stop the scape goat theory. It will not hold up.

It only holds up one's criteria are not objective and are merely used to obfuscate and play demonstrably immoral (and I trust non-Islamic) games with the lives and well-being of the Gazan people.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by davinca on December 7, 2008 at 2:21pm

Sorry, but should we call it soft Genocide or slow Genocide? - Ethnic Cleansing you can call it too: Ilan Pappe ... listen to Ilan Pappe ... this is typical to hide behind political correct definitions and terms - cases can never be compared 1 : 1 ... how can you demand to know what is going on in Gaza under a Hamas regime when you totally isolated it from the rest of the world - there is estabelishing a society which is beyond your control - but its the siege which have contributed to a large scale to this situation ... so don't complain!!! ... the logical consequence is - if things are developing more into this direction (and unfortunately it looks like that) - this will be the pretext for a terrible war ...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on December 4, 2008 at 4:44am

What would stop the rockets from Gaza?
Hi Wafa and all

Carol asked what I see as the most important and relevant question here: What would stop the rockets? That question has been ignored.

Clearly from what has been written here, ALL here have sympathy for the Gazan victims.

Please note that the Israelis say: No aggression from Gaza ==> No siege.

I see no moral or logical or practical justification for the rockets and the petulant macho games other than simply to deliberately manufacture more Gazan victims.

Is my assessment flawed?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on December 5, 2008 at 3:44pm

I am puzzled why none here has responded the above.

Or should I conclude that everyone here agrees that: there is no moral or logical or practical justification for the rockets and the petulant macho games other than simply to deliberately manufacture more Gazan victims?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by davinca on December 7, 2008 at 1:47pm

... and there is no justicifaction whatsoever to punish collectively the Gazan population where at least 50 % are NOT Hamas supporters !!! Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions collective punishments are a war crime. ... today: 7th December 2008: UNRWA in Gaza: Food reserve will run out in two or three days

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Paul RETI on December 7, 2008 at 2:12pm

Food will not run out unless that is what Hamas and/or UNWRA want! Simple! Real simple! Both Hamas and the UNWRA people know that. Ask them directly, quietly and very privately.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by davinca on December 8, 2008 at 2:11pm

thanks to the tunnels ... btw: I am used to your cynical comments ...

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• …
• 10
• Next ›
• Page