Youth Against Settlements group

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Permalink Reply by Stephanie Chase on March 24, 2009 at 6:57pm

This sounds awsome!
Is the Beit Romano settlement in East Jerusalem?
I wish I could go to the protest, but unfortunatly, I live on the other side of the Atlantic.
Is it ok if I share it with friends living in Israel or Palestine?

Blessings
Stephanie :)

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Permalink Reply by Samir Khoury on March 25, 2009 at 2:10am

Stephanie Chase

Very good Stephanie. I understand the trip would cost about $600.00 and just imagine the experience you would acquire.
Beit Romano is actually in Hebron and has been owned by Jews well before the 1929 pogroms and expulsions. All Jews and Arabs are well familiar with the shenanigans in Hebron past and prseent.

You are aware that Hebron was Israels (historical) first capital? and the tomb of the patriarchs is located there?

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on March 25, 2009 at 10:09am

Samir,

if we go to history, we will find that many of the property in Israel was owned by war.
so is that justify that the Palestinians will get back their property too?

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Permalink Reply by Hiba on March 25, 2009 at 2:00pm

It is like you've read my mind Neri......

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on March 25, 2009 at 5:41pm

believe it or not - we are all palestinians, i born in Palestine too :)

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Permalink Reply by Mazin Qumsiyeh on March 25, 2009 at 2:56pm

Dear Neri

There si a huge difference between the settlers in Hebron and Palestinians who lost their homes in the past 60 years. The racist settlers in Hebron have nothing to do with the Palestinian Jews who lived there before 1929. They are not their kin or their descendents. In fact some of the original Jewish inhabitants who were tracked down want nothing to do with these racist bigots. Most of teh 400 settlers are American Jews from wealthy Western families. THe Palestinians from the 530 depopulated villages and towns are a very different story. We shoudl not mix apples and oranges.

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on March 25, 2009 at 5:59pm

Mazin,

there are Jews who lost property in Hebron, their children and grand children exist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
1929 Aftermath
The Baltimore News header reads: Massacre of women, children at Hebron told by refugees.

In total, 67 Jews were murdered in Hebron; 59 died during the riots and 8 more succumbed to their wounds later. The remaining members, save one woman who refused to go, were placed on trucks and delivered to Jerusalem and all their property was seized by the Arabs.[15] Most of dead were Ashkenazi men, but there were also a dozen women and three children under the age of three. Seven of the victims were yeshiva students from the United States and Canada. Dozens of people were wounded, including many women and children. Several cases of rape, mutilation and torture were reported in the Jewish press.[5] These claims were contested by Arab spokesmen. When the bodies were exhumed no conclusions could be made one way or another.[16]

Altogether 195 Arabs and 34 Jews were sentenced by the courts for crimes related to the 1929 riots. Death sentences were handed down to 17 Arabs and 2 Jews, but these were later commuted to long prison terms except in the case of 3 Arabs who were hanged. Large fines were imposed on about 25 Arab villages or urban neighborhoods. Some financial compensation was paid to persons who lost family members or property.

Some Hebron Arabs, amongst whom the President of Hebron's Chamber of Commerce, Ahmad Rashid al-Hirbawi, favoured the return of Jews to the town.[17] 160 Jews did return in the spring of 1931 with Rabbi Chaim Bagaio, but were evacuated, except for one family, again during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[18] The last family left in 1947.


[عدل] النتائج

بلغ عدد الضحايا اليهود 67 نسمة من ضمنهم كان هنالك ايضاً 12 من النساء وثلاث اطفال تحت سن الثالثة. تم جرح العشرات و من ضمنهم النساء والاطفال. كان معظم الضحايا من أبناء الطائفة اليهودية الخليلية التي أقيمت في أواخر القرن السادس عشر للميلاد وتوسعت في أوائل القرن التاسع عشر للميلاد. أما سبعة من الضحايا فكانوا يهوداً من أميركا وكندا جاؤوا إلى الخليل ليتعلموا في يشيفا التابعة للطائفة اليهودية الخليلية.

غادر جميع الناجين من المذبحة المدينة، وانتقلت اليشيفا الخليلية إلى القدس. في 1931 كانت محاولة لإقامة الطائفة اليهودية الخليلية من جديد، ولكن جميع اليهود غادروا المدينة في 1936 إثر استئناف التوتر بين اليهود والعرب في فلسطين.

it is interesting to compare Arab and English and Hebrew descriptions ...

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Permalink Reply by Mazin Qumsiyeh on March 25, 2009 at 8:20pm

Dear Neri:
I know that. In fact, if you read my message you will see I say that but I also say that the settlers in there now are racist thiefs -- they have nothing to do with these previous Hebron inhabitants. There were a few hundred Jews in Hebron, some where killed in what can only be described as a massacre (and Palestinains were also killed in massacres at that time). Others were ironically protected in Palestinain homes of families that were evicted by Jewish settlers in the past 20 years (revenge on the wrong people). Many of them are (still) anti-Zionist and have friends among Hebron Muslims.

I do still object to making this as somehow related to Palestinians who lost their lands in 1948. I personally believe Jews who lived in Hebron prior to 1929 should have a right to return to their homes as I believe Palestinians should be returned to their homes and lands. I also do not think theft should be legitimized. Stolen lands and homes shoudl be returned to their owners.

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on March 25, 2009 at 9:08pm

Mazin,

I understand your point.

my view is that we have a complex situation and confusion between personal rights and duties and communal rights and duties.

forming a state, one state or two make people citizens.

when you think on Taxing and or even decisions about printing money that create inflation ... or just think on the current economic crisis. people are loosing property due actions done by the collective/state. this is the cost of being citizen you subject yourself to the bigger system.

so for the sake of the future of the region I advocate that we need to try and balance the private costs of the conflict and seek a system that can enable sustainable future that will include rights, education, stable economy.

the Issue of the Palestinian property is hard to comment when you are Israeli ... so I take my "citizen of the world" hat and say that as Jewish-Palestinian who had the good luck to be born on the easy side of the border I think we should focus more on the future property we can create together and less on the property we lost.

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Permalink Reply by Mazin Qumsiyeh on March 26, 2009 at 3:49pm

Dear Neri
In international law there is collective and individual rights and there are individual and collective responsibillities. But International law is very clear about punishing those who had nothing to do with a particular atrocty or problem. That is the essence of the 4th Geneva convention and all annexes and agreements taht came after. The situation where states do actions that create poverty or misery are also crimes IMHO. Economic hardships created by state or non-state actors are not at the same level as massacres and ethnic cleansing. The latter certainly requires redress.

The problem is that the density of population now in the West Bank and Gaza is 5 times what it is within the Green LIne and this is without the Palestinian refugees being allowed to return to ther homes and lands. Sociological studies show there is space to return the Palestinians to their lands that were stolen from them. Not returning stolen properties is a recipe for continuous blood shed. Justice is the best route to a durable peace.
Mazin

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Permalink Reply by Neri Bar-On on May 9, 2009 at 8:20am

Dear Mazin,

The Nakba continues and the amount of loose that Palestinians endure is piling up.

The task of building palestinian modern national state that will enable the society to build independent palestinian economy and life style is huge.

The idea of international law break down in war times, our problem is the unproportional power Israel have over the palestinian in the world and in Israel.

this advantage will not disappear when we will have one state and Israelis will not accept that some one will take what they worked for all their life.

your prime mistake is to confuse the collective element with the individual element. the Israelis who sit today in land lost by 48-67 war worked hard, payed state taxes and was informed they are doing legal thing.

So If you think that Israel civil war is a solution for the Palestinian problem you are wrong, in such case one state or two state the real one to pay for the aggression will be the palestinians blaming them to execute right of return.

Same is palestinian civil war that its outcome is more aggression and violence and more pain for the palestinians,

it is not fair that Israel is stronger, and the Palestinians state should be authentic independent creation of the Palestinian nation, - you cannot avoid the strength Israel have, palestinians must find a wise way around it.

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on May 8, 2009 at 11:24pm

The Palestinians have lot lost any land it’s just being occupied right now by illegal land thieves but this will not last.

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