Why Is Israel fail to deliver peace and how much is the "left wing" responsiable for that ?


Why Is Israel fail to deliver peace and how much is the "left wing" responsible for that ?

It is a fu**ing hard and complex question, and since I do not wish to Blame the Israeli left I need to recognize that left and right wind activists are doing what they believe to be the true right thing to do.

To understand the dynamics I invite you to look on the The Assimilation-Contrast Effect is grounded in Social Judgement Theory, developed by Muzafer Sherif and his wife, Carolyn Wood Sherif, in the 1960s. Their student Dr. Don Beck integrate this with the work of Dr. Clair Graves and bring some useful easy to understand concepts to understand this dynamics. you can read some about it here with videos and some more deep description of Spiral Dynamics Integral VMeme codes in the Center for Human Emergence group on

The Israelis who live today in Israel and many Arabs too wish to have Israeli entity, for them Israel is were they born and Hebrew his their language to speak.

The Israelis in general want Peace, at the civilian level the majority accepts idea of Peace where Peaceful Palestine exist side of Israel and there are warm economic social relationship. Most of them understand that how to resolve the humanitarian issue of the Palestinians include recognizing the Naqba require complex arrangements that need huge investments that require the "political/Governance" level to lead agreements and condition for mutual businesses to be created.

The "political/Governance" level is stuck to manifest such idea since the dynamic of the "democratic elections" and "political divide" push toward shrinking of the Center of pragmatists and conciliators . Within Likud,Kadima and Avuda members exist a silenced center of politicians who can change the balance but they are marginalized by collaboration actions of "left" and "right" that through elections and coalition process have opportunity to dominant the policies.
Any proposal or idea forward is immediately judge if it is a "left" or a "right" and usually aggressively criticize by both sides since what ever is moderate it is not a "left wing" nor a "right wing" solution and the left and right activists are attacking the moderated ideas as they are extreme plan of the other wing. Any of the Politicians needs a good public image to run for election, so any of them need to be silent of ideas that attacking the left and right wing activists. these Politicians are considered "left wing" or "right wing" and they are stuck. Kadima is a new effort to get out of this trap, but we cannot be sure it works as Israel fall back to election year.

Some of the members here showed how from your their clearly "left wing" view all the parties that dominant the public are too "right wing". I probably will not be able to convince any of them because they need a "center wing view" to see our real practical rule to push and support "center wing view" thinking that will empower the silenced majority for action.

Their comments are typically anti "center wing view" attacks where the people who seek to create change through pragmatists and conciliators world view are argued against suggesting they are traitors or agents of the other side extremists.

it exists all over, and not only Israelis, Arabs too have such dynamics. So when we are working within our Israeli culture to change our relationships with the arabs and with ourselves we need to look for the "center wing view" too.

I invite you to also read that If you want development toward peace, you need to strengthen the moderate center

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You say:
"For the Palestinian to be able to create a state we need some shift within Israel,"

I say, perhaps, but more than that, for the Palestinian to be able to create a state we need some shift within Palestine. As you say: "deep complex issue with the non-Jewish citizens.
I respectfully submit that there are far more of you in Israel than you have Palestinian counterparts as focused on creating space for the other within their society.
Or there'd be a Palestinian "Shatil" already, and not just the PA standing in for the PA Peace Now, while PA people continue to kill Israeli hikers and drives and so on.
How many Palestinians killed this year by Shalom Achshav members?

Removing the settlements is not "not enough," it is not right at all.
And a definite step away from peaceful coexistence.

You always talk about a new way. And deep changes. That are really needed, I agree.
One of them is for you to abandon your "cores" regarding what it will take to bring peaceful coexistence between us. Not abandonment and segregation.

Real respect, yes, Including the respect of having expectations of meeting minimum standards of decency and mutual acceptance. Which is built by familiarity.
Which cannot happen after population transfer.

What amazes me is that, when I speak with Palestinians, they are nowhere near as adamant as you on this, and do not generally say the settlements must be removed. They tend towards saying, like Hiba, that the settlers must accept becoming Palestinian citizens, but that is an entirely different approach than yours.

And how can you be so against population transfer for one population but for it regarding another? As my friend Rassem once said to the Israeli consul in Florida regarding the then-planned-hitnatkut, these kinds of transfers are always a bad idea. And never work out well in the end. The consul made arguments like yours. But it turned out he was wrong, and his prediction of moderation and more peace did not come true.

If we need a new paradigm, it is a new paradigm of coexistence, not a new paradigm of running away from each other.
Yigal, I really appriciate this post. It has really made me think and I love things that make me think.
Hi again, Fred,
a - I didn't call this administration left wing at all. I said that what passes for left has become truly out-there in left-field. Bizarre. Extreme. I said nothing about this administration, which is in fact very right wing.
b - qualify it as you will, the very fact that Israel is the only real attempt at democracy in that region says far more about it than the extent to which it has not succeeded.
At least it's trying, in a neighborhood where an extremely well-funded contingent still denies that democracy, pluralism, and freedom are even compatible with their values and traditions, or worth institutionalizing in society at all.
To both Neri and Fred,

The Palestine which will accommodate Jewish citizens can not be one that follows
the 1968 Fatah doctrine, which stated:

"Fatah's recognition of the right of a Jewish minority to exist is nothing new. It recalls the fundamental Islamic position, whic grants Jews security on the condition of their subordination as a tolerated minority."

Instead, it must be one that follows the spirit of what the PA agreed to in in 1995, and has ratified over and over again since.

"Israel and the Council shall exercise their powers and responsibilities pursuant to this Agreement with due regard to internationally-accepted norms and principles of human rights and the rule of law."

Now either that is just a bad, vague, ill-defined joke (- what "norms and priniciples?" Those of Sudan and Somalia and Arabia and Iran? Sri Lanka?); or it is meant to be taken seriously.
By both sides.
So we must demand that both sides make a good-faith effort. Including eliminating the reasons I heard for 'why we can't hope to leave any 'settlers' where they are.'
Or we're admitting that there will be no rule of law there, and no real defense of human rights....and that these agreements are nothing more than bad jokes themselves, as well.
Yigal -
Bravo. I also support leaving the settlers where they are, within the context of Palestinian political freedom, the rule of law; possibly within a federation of Israel/Palestine.
Yigal -
a. Not in other democracies. Israel is the only 'democracy' I have ever lived in where one is generally reviled by most citizens for supporting the human rights of a minority. One is regarded as a 'traitor'. It's kind of like being a white person supporting Black rights in the USA about 50 years ago in Louisianna!!
b. one has to remember that the last elections in the PA (I was observing), were fair and democratic. However the results were not recognized by Israel or the USA, and as a result Hamas was marginalized.
No, in the US the terrorism was in the other direction. Blacks were being lynched and white supporters were being gunned down.

I didn't compare Hamas to US Blacks. I compared myself and my Jewish/Israeli colleagues to white supporters of Black rights. Upholding civil and human rights as universal values is fundamental to any political discourse, and all of us, including Palestinians, deserve no less. Unfortunately in Israel 'Human Rights' has become a dirty word.
Fred, I think the point was that while black supporting whites were supporting people who did nothing wrong, the Palestinian supporters are supporting a people, who as a group have elected a government into power that wants to destroy Israel and take its place through force and terrorism
No, disregard for human rights by the Palestinian Authority, either the Fatah or Hamas parties, is also deplorable. However much of the repressive measures recently implemented by the Fatah PA police have the support of the USA and Israel.

As an advocate for Palestinian rights, the comparison is valid. White supporters of Black rights in the USA were also considered 'traitors' by the majority of people in the American south.



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