Discussion will be continued on Is Israel poisoning Palestinian lands and people?

Thanks for all tried to help especially Noa, Hiba, Max, Paul, ..

got from

Efrat Noy

you may take action as well!

I found the following related Info

The one on Palestinian side know much about those crimes is Dr Mahmoud Sa'adeh from Yatta in Hebron!

Dear All,

Yesterday (Monday) we went with Iyad to search for and photograph evidence to document the military waste and dangerous materials that the IOF leaves in the area of the Jahalin Bedouin in the south Hebron hills. Iyad took us to visit a family whose child’s leg was badly burnt a month ago when he was playing in the desert with ammunition remains left behind by the Israeli military. Nothing could have prepared us for our meeting with the boy, whose name is Jabar, even though he had received medical attention at Yata [a nearby city]. The condition of his leg is shocking, and it will be a miracle if he does not lose his leg.

This resulted from his playing with some sort of acid that resembles salt (who knows what the implications are). Jabar, who is 13 years old, is urgently in need of medical treatment.

According to Iyad and the family, the care that he received at Yata was typical of the attitude there towards the Bedouins who come there for medical care.

We contacted the Physicians for Human Rights and B’tselem, and as a result the child will go today to a hospital in Hebron, accompanied by Issa from B’tselem, and hopefully from there to a hospital in Israel.

Following our visit, we went to the dessert and found evidence of the controlled explosions that the Israeli military performs, and the salt-like waste that charred the youngster.

The military does not bother to in any way indicate the presence of the dangerous chemicals it leaves behind.

I attach pictures of the boy and of the evidence we found.

The photos were also sent to B’tselem.

Hopefully, the child will get to the hospital today, and not lose his leg.


----- Original Message -----
From: אהוד קריניס
To: Ehud Krinis
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:50 AM
Subject: מה ראינו באום דרג'

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Efrat Noy
Date: 24/06/2008 16:17
Subject: Fwd: מה ראינו באום דרג'

שלום לכולם

אתמול (יום שני) יצאנו עם עיד כדי לחפש ולצלם עדויות לדווחים על

פסולת נפלים ותחמושת וחומרים מסוכנים שמשאיר צה"ל

בשטחי המרעה של שבט ג'האלין המתגוררים באזור אום דרג' (מזרחה

לאום אל חיר/התנחלות כרמל). עיד לקח אותנו לבקר משפחה

ששמע כי אחד מילדיה נכווה ברגלו לפני כחודש תוך משחק במדבר עם שאריות תחמושת של הצבא.

שום דבר לא הכין את כולנו למפגש עם הילד-(ששמו ג'אבר אבן מוסא

למרות שלכאורה קיבל טיפול ביאטה, מצב הרגל שלו פשוט מזעזע

וזה יהיה נס אם לא יאבד אותה

כל זאת כתוצאה ממשחק עם איזושהי חומצה דמוית מלח (מי יודע מה ההשלכות)

הילד, בן 13, זקוק לטיפול ד-ח-ו-ף!!! לטענת עיד והמשפחה

הטיפול שקיבל ביאטה אופייני ליחס לו זוכים הבדואים בבואם לקבל טיפול רפואי מפלסטינים

לאחר שיצרנו קשר עם רופאים לזכויות אדם ועם בצלם הילד ילקח היום לביה"ח בחברון

בליווי עיסא מבצלם שידאג שלא יפלו אותו בטיפול, בתקווה שיקבל הפנייה לבי"ח בישראל.

לאחר הביקור יצאנו למדבר ומצאנו עדויות לפיצוצים המבוקרים של צה"ל ולאותו חומר דמוי מלח.

הצבא לא דאג לסמן בשום דרך את המצאותם של חומרים מסוכנים באזור

אני מצרפת תמונות של הילד ושל השטח.

התמונות נשלחו גם לבצלם.

אינשאללה הילד יגיע היום לבי"ח ולא יאבד את רגלו

להתראות לכולם


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added contacts to original post.
thanks for this information
one day those Jews will realize that they are doing this atrocities in a way that they falsify thier own Jewish history and moral values.

May God lighten their mind and open their hearts to the Pain they cause the poor Palestinians and make them remember the Holocaust - the unique crime against the Jews.
Dear Khaled, i support wholeheartedly your spiritual response here. One thing i want to highlight that is a constant issue between Jews and Arabs. it is the subtlety of identifying 'the other'. in this case, i would say, "One day those people (not Jews) will realize..." I know this sounds silly but it is not. when we are trying to hear each other it is vital that we do not be understood to be generalizing about the other group. I know that was not your intention, but needed to say this, so that you can be heard.
Dear Marc and khaled,

I guess we can recognize that when we say "Jews" we point on diverse complex human body as complex as the "Palestinians" human body.

The world centric humanistic view need to get more influence on what people do all over, the majority of Jews I know in Israel as majority o non Jews are captured with ethnocentric view, this is our realty. but within this realty I can see the work you both do in different path as a sign that this world-humanistic-view is emerging.

I some sense when we think of "One day those people" we are referring also to ourselves seeking to enhance the world-humanistic-view that can bring better resolutions to the conflicts that are based on a view that think that "us vs. them" is a realty and fail to recognize us all as one body of people from different cultural back ground but with one future that need to address more then the Israeli-Palestinian conflict we need to frame a solution that will secure us (the people) from these conditions that can bring Naqba on a whole nation.
I agree with Marc and I know Khaled work .. he is helping us to realize to make the other realize.
It is a bidirectional interaction .. we depend on each other to make one step forward.

This is clearly shocking.

Those responsible are clearly incompetent and irresponsible, and their behaviour reprehensible.

Can or will anyone here try to follow up to establish:

  • How the boy is now.
  • Whether he is getting appropriate and ongoing medical attention. If not, what is needed.
  • What that "waste" really is.
  • Especially who was really responsible for that waste.
I really would prefer to not judge until all the relevant information is really available.

Thanks Jafra for the "heads up".
Please let me know someone if the child still has trouble getting into a hospital.
Maybe I know someone...
I will ask some experts to join the discussion ..

am hearing about the poisoning dilemma since about one year. The reports I had are in Arabic.

will let you know more soon in sha' allah

what is for you "relevant Information" to be able to "judge"!

haven't you ever been convinced that IDF is acting war crimes against Palestinians?
Am asking to know your opinion .. I think I did not do this before.

You do not need to believe any Palestinian, just ask the Israeli NOGs and Groups working on that field.

We can "argue" about narratives, but it is absurd not to judge about war crimes.

There is thousand of people has been killed with called blood by IDF. No one talks about them except their Families and friends. At PNA web-ste or any other site did not find any site includes the names of these people, how they killed and status of investigations.

When one Palestinian do crime against Israelis, Israel is doing all its best the "need measures", eliminate him, etc.

It hurts to feel no one is responsible for Palestinians. It is very very sad and painful.

just wanted to know how I feel ..
Hi Jafra,

I think that I really know and understand that you and many Palestinians feel very hurt by many of the related issues.

I trust that you also know and understand that many Israelis and Jews feel very hurt by many of the related issues (which include but are not limited to that of Israelis and Jews and Palestinians, probably in that order.)

Above you talk about what for me, in this case, are two different issues:
  • A general case about the victimhood of the Palestian People
  • The specific case of this boy.
I trust that you understand that I am limiting my comments in this discussion very deliberately to the "The specific case of this boy".

Someone else here could or should start a specific discussion about "The victimhood of the Palestian People".

Be well...
The boy was taken to the hospital, he is fine. Please see my update from quite a while ago:

I must add: this discussion has been "revived" after I updated about the boy's status and there seem to be some confusions here. The discussion has diverted to all kinds of different directions. So let's make the situation clear: Jaber is fine, he was taken a few times to the hospital for treatment. The issue that now exists is the broad one of chemical waste. I really suggest we start this discussion fresh and see what we can do about this issue. The current discussion has become confusing and we are walking backwards instead of forwards.
Hi Noa

The very real confusion exists because for some reason there was an urgent call for help when, as it transpires, there may have been no emergency at all.

The reply posted when you posted it was simply one of many the seemingly conflicting bits of information. I trust you Noa. But I am certain that you do not have all the relevant story and none of us here do, unless this was all designed to a tug-your-heart propaganda exercise.

The publicists and the helper you unearthed, Noa, the mysterious Ezra and the photographer who gets shot by the IDF and abused in hospital, seem not to be connected. It still seems to me to be a case of the blind (mis)leading the blind. And as such I consider this all to be be still very, very unkosher in the fullest sense of that word.

I am sorry Noa. If people ask for help, then that is what they should really be seeking to remain credible. It seems to me now that some people seem(ed) to be hell-bent on exploiting Jabar Iben Musa's misfortune for their own purposes that have nothing do with the welfare of Jabar Iben Musa.

I'll just leave it at that.

Those who want to discuss the general case I think should do so in the discussion "Dr. Mahmoud Sa'ada says "IDF poisons South Hebron"" which is at and present and try to substantiate real claims rather there.

I'd also be interested to find out who organised and participated in the visit to Jabar Iben Musa and his family whether Jabar Iben Musa or his family received any financial help before, during, and after this expedition and if so from who and why.

I repeat: It now realy seems to me now that some people seem(ed) to be hell-bent on exploiting Jabar Iben Musa's misfortune for their own (political) purposes that have nothing do with the welfare of Jabar Iben Musa. If that asessment is valid, then somethng stinks. Real bad!

Be well...
-- PmR



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