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Discussion will be continued on Is Israel poisoning Palestinian lands and people?

Thanks for all tried to help especially Noa, Hiba, Max, Paul, ..


got from
Dorothy dor_naor-at-netvision.net.il

Efrat Noy efrat.noy1-at-mail.huji.ac.il

you may take action as well!
Best,
J.

I found the following related Info
http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10202796.html
http://www.awan.com.kw/node/32185
http://www.maan-ctr.org/magazine/Issue1/main_topic/topic1.htm
http://www.felesteen.ps/index.php?action=showdetail&nid=17151

The one on Palestinian side know much about those crimes is Dr Mahmoud Sa'adeh from Yatta in Hebron!


---
Dear All,

Yesterday (Monday) we went with Iyad to search for and photograph evidence to document the military waste and dangerous materials that the IOF leaves in the area of the Jahalin Bedouin in the south Hebron hills. Iyad took us to visit a family whose child’s leg was badly burnt a month ago when he was playing in the desert with ammunition remains left behind by the Israeli military. Nothing could have prepared us for our meeting with the boy, whose name is Jabar, even though he had received medical attention at Yata [a nearby city]. The condition of his leg is shocking, and it will be a miracle if he does not lose his leg.



This resulted from his playing with some sort of acid that resembles salt (who knows what the implications are). Jabar, who is 13 years old, is urgently in need of medical treatment.



According to Iyad and the family, the care that he received at Yata was typical of the attitude there towards the Bedouins who come there for medical care.



We contacted the Physicians for Human Rights and B’tselem, and as a result the child will go today to a hospital in Hebron, accompanied by Issa from B’tselem, and hopefully from there to a hospital in Israel.



Following our visit, we went to the dessert and found evidence of the controlled explosions that the Israeli military performs, and the salt-like waste that charred the youngster.



The military does not bother to in any way indicate the presence of the dangerous chemicals it leaves behind.



I attach pictures of the boy and of the evidence we found.



The photos were also sent to B’tselem.



Hopefully, the child will get to the hospital today, and not lose his leg.



Ofra


----- Original Message -----
From: אהוד קריניס
To: Ehud Krinis
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:50 AM
Subject: מה ראינו באום דרג'



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Efrat Noy
Date: 24/06/2008 16:17
Subject: Fwd: מה ראינו באום דרג'
To: ksehud@gmail.com



שלום לכולם

אתמול (יום שני) יצאנו עם עיד כדי לחפש ולצלם עדויות לדווחים על

פסולת נפלים ותחמושת וחומרים מסוכנים שמשאיר צה"ל

בשטחי המרעה של שבט ג'האלין המתגוררים באזור אום דרג' (מזרחה

לאום אל חיר/התנחלות כרמל). עיד לקח אותנו לבקר משפחה

ששמע כי אחד מילדיה נכווה ברגלו לפני כחודש תוך משחק במדבר עם שאריות תחמושת של הצבא.

שום דבר לא הכין את כולנו למפגש עם הילד-(ששמו ג'אבר אבן מוסא

למרות שלכאורה קיבל טיפול ביאטה, מצב הרגל שלו פשוט מזעזע

וזה יהיה נס אם לא יאבד אותה

כל זאת כתוצאה ממשחק עם איזושהי חומצה דמוית מלח (מי יודע מה ההשלכות)

הילד, בן 13, זקוק לטיפול ד-ח-ו-ף!!! לטענת עיד והמשפחה

הטיפול שקיבל ביאטה אופייני ליחס לו זוכים הבדואים בבואם לקבל טיפול רפואי מפלסטינים

לאחר שיצרנו קשר עם רופאים לזכויות אדם ועם בצלם הילד ילקח היום לביה"ח בחברון

בליווי עיסא מבצלם שידאג שלא יפלו אותו בטיפול, בתקווה שיקבל הפנייה לבי"ח בישראל.

לאחר הביקור יצאנו למדבר ומצאנו עדויות לפיצוצים המבוקרים של צה"ל ולאותו חומר דמוי מלח.

הצבא לא דאג לסמן בשום דרך את המצאותם של חומרים מסוכנים באזור

אני מצרפת תמונות של הילד ושל השטח.

התמונות נשלחו גם לבצלם.

אינשאללה הילד יגיע היום לבי"ח ולא יאבד את רגלו

להתראות לכולם

אפרת

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At the UN we saw this time and time again from war zones and previous war zones. Kids get into the left over remains of rage and hate and pay a secondary price. A lasting peace is the only option but even that will not guarantee that this won't happen: case in point the civil war artifact that exploded recently in a collectors hands when he brought it home from a battle field. The problem here is not how to help people injured or prevent it from happening...it is the use of things like this for propaganda purposes to work up even more hate and reprisals. A peace group should turn it's back on the propaganda elements of things like this and work on the humanitarian issues. There is no place for propaganda and politics in empathy, either we are all one species or not.
I repeat Neri, if the poblem was really urgent then and if the instigators of the story were really serious about the urgency and unless they grossly incompetent they would have done something constructive about the urgent problem, there and then. They clearly did not and simply choose to play the blame game and so I unashamedly do blame the blamers.

They are demonstrably just propagandists and political activists who unashamedly try to exploit others' misfortunes. This site had at least one other such example that was thankfully deleted by the originator who claims to no longer live here but still very obviously does live here...
Dear Paul,

the blamer will continue to come and provoke us from both sides, we should not fall in the provocation trap.

we can improve our resilience as a community not to get into Blame Games and focus in cooperation as done in Peace Cafe or helping Jabar people to get water through existing NGOs.

I think that going to see what are the "facts" is usually part of the trap since what the blamers do is seeing some evidence and concluding a narrative that much their expectation. You can never succeed to prove that Jabar is healthy and if you claim that you sure put yourself as enemy and will not be listen too. So the best way is to go to the Human relationship and see if we can put hand and help he needs.
Dear Paul,

the blamer will continue to come and provoke us from both sides, we should not fall in the provocation trap.

we can improve our resilience as a community not to get into Blame Games and focus in cooperation as done in Peace Cafe or helping Jabar people to get water through existing NGOs.

I think that going to see what are the "facts" is usually part of the trap since what the blamers do is seeing some evidence and concluding a narrative that much their expectation. You can never succeed to prove that Jabar is healthy and if you claim that you sure put yourself as enemy and will not be listen too. So the best way is to go to the Human relationship and see if we can put hand and help he needs.
Well Mary, usually politically motivated people who use the type of sentence structure we saw in the opening blurb are more concernined about shock and propaganda than with getting medical attention for the injured. As I said, the important thing here is to help the injured. It is well known that mines and such litter a large part of the world and are going to continue to cause injuries for years to come...but that is a long way from the insinuation that evil jewish soldiers are targeting the arabs for what? For fun? Get real...this is propaganda of the most rank sort.
Please understand Jaber is fine as Noa wrote three weeks ago. Please see: http://www.mepeace.org/forum/topic/show?id=661876%3ATopic%3A67531&a...

I spoke to Noa. Her lawyer friend says the case is outside the remit of their organization but they have given us names and numbers if we want to go further. Until I have made that phone call to Ezra I am not doing anything. Hopefully this will be done by today or Sunday by the latest.

Neri I think Paul has a point that stories such as these can be used for political point scoring and considering that the subject is a child it is a little cheap to do so. Nonetheless, so far I cannot this being done to any excessive degree. What I think is worth looking at is how the story evovled.

Jafra's post is a copy of what Dorothy Naor (a mepeace.org member and one of the founders of New Profile) wrote on the google group of her organisation. You can see it here:

http://groups.google.com/group/newprofile/browse_thread/thread/1c95...

this was then passed to the many people on New Profile's mailing list which includes Jafra, who added a few details and links from Arabic news agencies and from what I can see one Diane Warth an American who blogs at http://karmalised.com/?p=3236.
I have emailed this woman to see if she know anymore but Dorothy has given Hiba the number we need for more information and Noa has Ezra number. I have a very close friend in Jerusalem who is going to make some calls for me but they are busy now so if there is any Hebrew speaker who is willing to do a few Hebrew languages things for me I would be very grateful. This includes searching the web for any Hebrew language stories on Jabar.

Jafra is interested in the broader issues. I am no lawyer but I imagine that if Israel is guilty of dumping chemical waste then it is violating either its own basic laws, which it applies to the West Bank or one of the many International Treaties that it is a signatory to. I am still not certain to what degree this is relevant to this case. Jaber and his family might well have not been at an illegal unmarked chemical dump but simply collecting duds or unexploded ammunitions. Sure, the Israelis should clean up after themselves but Jafar and his family should be more careful but who can blame them? According to Ezra this is their only source of income. If my assumption is correct then to help Jaber you have to cut off his life line. This is why I am cautious about perusing a wider legal issue. We do not want some fancy lawyer jumping on the case who is more interested in their career than helping the Jahalin Bedouin. This is why I think we would achieve more by taking a more developmental approach. Whatever the rights and wrongs of both sides we are discussing in Jaber case one of the great evils of the modern world: poverty. Jaber is 13 and it appear that he is working everyday and if my assumptions are right he has gone back to the dangerous job that he had before he ended up in hospital in Hebron. What were you doing when you were 13?
Hi Max,

Yes. Now we all know that Jabar's health issues were obviously NOT urgent as the original reports claimed.

I trust that we are all supportive of doing something sensible and constructive, always were and always will be. Doing something sensible and constructive includes responding appropriaely to those who just manufacture material for their blame games.

What you write above makes sense. Max.

Yes, new profile does some constructive things. However it essentially is just a propaganda machine for Marxists. Its founder Dorothy Naor wrote on her home page here ( http://www.mepeace.org/profile/DorothyNaor) "that the type of country that Israel evolved into was the worst things that has happened to Jews." That puzzles me. I'd have thought that regardless of one's politics or background, most people who walk with both feet on the ground would consider The Shoah to be the "the worst things that has happened to Jews."

Given all that, I must plead guilty to being sceptical of some material that new profile so readily publish and embelish. The article posted was very obviously an emotive piece from that stable.

What was I doing when I was 13? I was in high-school here in OZ and working in a delicatessen (not my family's) for 15 to 30 hours a week before and after school. My family also really needed that income then, here in the (wonder) land of OZ. The same is probably also true of many 13yo kids who live in Israel and elsewhere now!

Be well...
PmR
Sydney OZ
Hello Paul,

I wonder if Dorothy Naor is referring to the way military service is currently being handled in Israel, because I have the impression that the soldiers are required to do many things that are very damaging to boys in their late teens.
Her statement seems clear and unquailfied. I cannot read her mind. I can only read and try to undestand what she writes, and observe and attempt to assess what she does.
just a remark .. i have to think with wet-eyes about the mother and her kids I saw on my trip in Nepal knocking the whole day under the sun big stones in samll stones tha tthe can be sued to build high-.way for the country, that politician and rich people can use the streets, but that woman will walk 10 miles to her village to save crowded bus costs.
Yes this is the point Max .. I really appreciate your awareness.

If there is something I would hate, is our dump political and value system .. it make me sick and mad, but gaining more and more rebelling power again and again ..

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