as I am one of the who we need to trust I share with you that recently some aggressive Blame-Game discussion made some roots in our forum. Just let us be conscious about it and moderate ourselves.

We cannot blame the blamers its their "truth" after all.

I remind you that is a free forum and as any one brings his/her perspective and judgments of what are the fundamental and central issues one need to accept others who express her/his perspectives of the fundamental and central issues

Please trust me, I do not have any manipulative plans as I express freely my opinions as anyone else. If you do not trust me, it is hard to recognize that we are different and accept each other.

From my perspective we all should self-reflect in the national & identity level and the personal level. I know I cannot convince any of you ; I just ask you to recognize and respect different perspectives . I hope that from all perspectives we can share this one world.

Here some palyful: terminology of Blame Game it can be used to describe a repeatably failure that generates aggression within us and bring endless debate that the results are pre-known.

The Game goes like this in its simplest form:

- A: HERE IS A TRUE STORY "xxxx" since it is true I conclude that what I always SAID as truth "tttt" is valid and hence the solution is need to be "sssss". The root of all suffering is "rrrr" which and I blame the Israelis (or Palestinians) for bring that evil to our life.

- B: "xxxx" is a lie, go study history since the TRUE STORY "SSSS" since it is true I conclude that what I always SAID as truth "EEEEE" is valid and hence the solution is need to be "GGGGG". The root of all suffering is "KKKK" which and I blame the Palestinians (or Israelis ) for bring that evil to our life.

The peak of the Game where we see :

- A: I just proved that you are a narrow minded person with f**ked propaganda and I not need to listen to you as you are agent of Evil

- B: Who do you call agent, you are Jew (Arab) lover and ignore relity and poison our beloved forum with you empty Propaganda.

and it continue

(message to C): - B: did your see how A said this lies, he/she a member in the mossad (mohabarat) I am sure; we should kick his/her ass out and remember we are fighting for peace this is a war. so are you with me or against me?

This is just one template that you may recognize, there are many other forms that bring the same output.

The cost of the blame game - empty discussion with expected pre-known outcome.
so sad and so human . will we be able to get deeper conversations?


Reply by Hayyim Feldman :

Ok, good, thanks for your explanation. If you read "My personal story" on my profile page, you'll see that this 3rd seat has been important to me since my childhood.

But I want to re-emphasize your original cautionary note. To enter into this 3rd seat, one steps out from participating in the dance of mutual blaming that goes on between Israelis and Palestinians, and begins to witness that dance instead, with a measure of critical distance. Excellent. However, by that very same step, one can also easily create a new blame-dance: This one is no longer between Israelis and Palestinians, but between "moderates" (us; good) and "extremists" - that is, the folks still stuck in that older blame game that we've so wisely left behind.

So to me, the most important part of your opening message was the idea expressed in the title (even though you didn't explain or refer to it in the remainder of what you wrote): Don't blame the blamers. In the end, "new" or "old," it's all the same fiery dance of blame, and it will burn down our shared home while we dance ourselves into oblivion.


Neri answer:

The more person aware of this dance and avoid it from the understanding that we are one body of humans. I expect moderates to recognize the view of the extremist and moderate them to more practical way then blame-game.

If moderate people will measure themselves not on the basis of "how much sure they are to think of themselves as moderate"; but will look for including and integrating all claims from all the whole spectrum and also check how practical they are in the way they promote change for the better in their society.

the key of moderation is deep acceptance that we are all one tissue of humans who ask for their fair share of what be are blessed. moderation is deeply taking into account the all parameters of a change that need to be done.

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Good question, Neri.
Good question.
Dear Yigal,

When one seriously challenge this evident human fault to fall into blame game the only why out is by keeping the questions open ones mind and seek more and more questions of maximum perspectives.
One should hold in his/her the consciousness this fault and decrease its influence by practicing not to fall into simple "1 cause 1 fault 1 solution 1 way and it is may true way" attitude.

The Blame Game is manages us from the private space of us with oneself through our group dynamics and as Hiba show in out political dynamics. and sadly this is not a joke. when we enable blame game this empty loop of blames simply block person, group and society from collaboration. My long endless discourse with some member is just a way to show it.
It moves inside a circle similar to this:

This is the circle, as this is internal image of the American Blame game, we are humans as they are so we cannot avoid going through this game. funy and sad, but we can go over it when we are conscious of our ability to create.

as you manifested this yourself, people find it easy to blame external causes then internal causes, funny enough we are more able to work on our internal causes then deal with the external causes.

I usually accept the phrase "no one is 100% wrong, since no one is so smart."

if you wish to get out from the Blame circle you need to understand that there is some truth in other people propositions, not all the truth but some of it.

while you bring the Blame propositions of others I am curious to know if you are aware of your Blame propositions that you brought to the forums. they are much more interesting as I agree with you that blaming Israel do not help to resolve the current conflict.
Hi Neri,

The blame game is very real indeed.

It seems to me that those who say that "We cannot blame the blamers its their "truth" after all" are simply also just playing and validating the blame game. The cartoon Hiba posted here so obviously proves that.

Solution? Those who actually want to (re)solve the real isues must stop playing all variants of the blame game. For me one of the most insidious versions of the blame game is the incitement game.

And yes. Almost all who sooooo fervently play the the blame game are simply not interested in solutions. They just continue to want to blame (the) others...
I do not understand your comment

Do you say that "blame the blamers" is a blame ?
It is very complex, Neri, but a good thread. We do need to get away from propaganda, and I think that was in part what Paul was trying to do ... to differentiate between the myths and the reality. Even the idea of blame is complex. I think that in general, when people try to lay historical blame, much like in any relationship, it's counterproductive, we need to deal with today's realities. On the other hand there are things people are doing today which may be responsible for the conflict, and we need to address those. That becomes a form of blame, that if we acknowledge it, and address it, things can change. For example, some may think the roadblocks make a large contribution to the difficulties in achieving peace, others may believe that if the rockets and terrorism stopped there would be peace. I think both of these, even if they imply blame, are valid topics for us to discuss, because resolving them may help to arrive at a solution. The question of who was responsible for the Naqba can resolve nothing, nor open a path to peace, whatever we may decide on this forum.

We can go a long way with the simple courtesies of listening to the other, and addressing their arguments rather than shrilly shouting abuse and propaganda in response to something we don't like. Everybody's argument is equally valid. Some are made in ignorance, and that is where discussion and resources can help an open mind see a different point of view, or acknowledge that they might have been misled.

I know that the vast majority on this list don't share my views, and I'm not here to change people. I am here to learn different viewpoints. Where they seem ill-informed, I will comment. Hopefully, if people disagree with that comment and any proof I provide, they will respond with counter arguments and counter proof.

Thanks for this thread Neri. I know that I have been tempted to simply pack up and move on ... being abused has never contributed much to my life, and I tend to avoid it. Neither do I delight in being exposed to irrational propaganda. But some informed discussion could go a very long way to promoting understanding.

One final comment, it doesn't matter where people seem to sit, I think that it can safely be presumed that people here are caring. I believe that everybody recognises the suffering of the Palestinians, but we clearly disagree on who is reponsible. That is good to discuss, even if it invloves blame. I hope that people also recognise the suffering of Israelis ... again, we can discuss who we think is responsible. That's my two shekels worth.
My point of view is that everybody's arguments are not necessarily equally valid.
Everybody has an equal right to their own opinion and argument,
but arguments should (and eventually will) succeed or fail based on objective factors.

I agree with you about the complexity of "blame" here.
everybody's arguments are not necessarily equally valid.
this where the Blame Game come to action where the Blame replace Validity, as if Zionism is Evil or Palestinians are Terrorist not need to be valid.
I just do not understand what you really mean Neri.

It seems to me that this is like what you are saying:
  • Nothing is necessarily valid.
  • Fact and (self) delusion are equivalent.
  • I may not really exist (for some).
  • I may just be a figment of my imagination (for some).
  • This discussion is just a figment of my imagination (for some).

Clearly the above is bizarre. So surely there must some be somewhere one can draw a rational and empirical line. Put simply your thesis here Neri simply seems to validate and encourage the manufacturing of faction and fiction for malevolent propaganda, and the dissemination of known lies.

Be well...
Do you understand Hiba picture above?
Can you see how people who are responsible fall into blame game?

Nothing is necessarily valid
Validity is a level of accuracy your story to reality, reality is all what is outside of us and we can agree that some of the stories we tell cannot be checked for Validity.

I may not really exist (for some)
I may just be a figment of my imagination (for some).

Don't worry you are Valid person, the people who don't know you and only read your comments surly may think different things then what you are. there are many people in our world that I am so remote from their life they can claim that I do not exist in their reality and that is fine with me.

This discussion is just a figment if my imagination (for some).
This claim is less valid since we have the physical expression of this discussion here. to the statment is less valid then the claim that This discussion is real and we can test it with the URL

You see, it is easy to blame me here that this real discussion encourage the manufacturting of faction and fiction for malavolent propaganda as Mary Rizzo claim the same. because you can blame any one of anything (I blame Mary to harm the Palestinian cause, and she will continue do her work. this is realety)

luckaly the real world contains real people like Mick who say above:

Thanks for this thread . I know that I have been tempted to simply pack up and move on ... being abused has never contributed much to my life, and I tend to avoid it. Neither do I delight in being exposed to irrational propaganda. But some informed discussion could go a very long way to promoting understanding.

if we can accept that this dynamic is valid we can come together and trick it into cooperation. this is all what this kind of post can do.



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