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Bolivia cuts ties with Israel, seeks genocide charges against Israeli officials

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055502.html


Last update - 19:36 14/01/2009
Bolivia cuts ties with Israel, seeks genocide charges against Israeli officials
By Reuters
Tags: gaza, hamas, bolivia

Bolivian President Evo Morales said on Wednesday that his country is breaking diplomatic ties with Israel over its 19-day-old campaign in Gaza, and said he will ask the International Criminal Court to bring genocide charges against top Israeli officials.




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Bolivia had diplomatic relations with Israel. [But] considering these grave attacks against...humanity, Bolivia will stop having diplomatic relations with Israel," Morales said in a speech before diplomats in the government palace.

"We haven't received official confirmation from the Bolivian government," the Israeli consul in La Paz, Roberto Nelkenbaum, told Reuters by telephone.

The diplomat said he was "surprised and sad" after hearing Morales' comments in local media and that the two countries have had good diplomatic relations for more than 50 years.

Israel launched the offensive in Gaza on Dec. 27, seeking to force the ruling Hamas militant group to stop rocket attacks on southern Israel.

Morales, a leftist, is a close ally of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who on Jan. 6 expelled Israel's ambassador in protest over the operation in Gaza.

Morales told the country's diplomatic corps that the Israeli attack seriously threatened world peace and he called for Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his cabinet to face criminal charges.

Morales chided the United Nations' "Insecurity Council" for its lukewarm response to the crisis and said the UN General Assembly should condemn the invasion.

He also said President Shimon Peres should be stripped of his Nobel Peace Prize for failing to stop the invasion.

Morales and Chavez have worked to cultivate ties to Iran, which supports
Hamas. Morales met Tuesday with visiting Iranian officials, who gave him a letter from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad thanking Morales for his previously voicing supporting for the Palestinians.

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Vincent reveals a lot about his prime doctrines and paradigms by writing: "The political fanaticism Israeli Policy towards Palestinians since 1948 is the idea of transfert, a kind of ethnic cleansing... this is the reason why Israeli leaders can't accept the idea of Right of Return."..

There are much simpler and more self-servingly rational (common-sense) reasons for the realted dilemmas some have.

Common usage really decides what words mean. The word Genocide is not new and has not changed in meaning for many, many years . Holocaust is the unique name that was first used to name the Nazi Genocide of Jews in and around WWII. That was fine until some people started to use the word for other (including political) purposes and as a generic alternative for the word genocide.. The Shoah or the Hebrew haShoah (not shoah) is the most accurate name now.
i ask you again to never reply to my messages Paul, because you are not able to understand what i write, you are even not able to read normally what i wrote... Your quote of what i wrote, AGAIN, is FALSE... Please, ignore what i write, it's not for you that i write...
Vincent again, claims, that I do not understand his doctrinaire pearls. Proof? Again,and again he offers none! Clearly he does not tolerate disagreement well!
Hi Basil,

Regarding the word holocaust, see http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=holocaust+. The earliest reference there seems to be to 13th Century.

I knew that the word itself was not invented in the 1940's. I just thought that it had a Greek pedigree. I used to know but no longer remember the name of the person who is credited with using it first for the Nazi Genocide of the Jews in and around WWII. I think that that was Primo Levi, though I could not find a reliable reference.

Is the Irish reference to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Irish_Famine of 1740–1741?
The Irish Holocaust
- as described in the Cork Examiner 1847

Irish holocaust
http://www.nga.ie/irish_holocaust.htm

Ireland's Holocaust of 1845-50 was one of history's greatest crimes. Its toll was well over five million innocents comprising the most gaelic, least anglified, of the people. Their bones are strewn in mass graves across Ireland.

"Holocaust" has precedence. In 1847 the Cork Examiner newspaper described it as such. So did others, incuding Michael Davitt in his two-volume works published about 1899.

[Disclaimer from Stewart - I do not know of the accuracy of the 5 million figure. Either way it was a devastating impact on the Irish population]

January 22, 1847
Deaths in Bantry
Cork Examiner
http://adminstaff.vassar.edu/sttaylor/FAMINE/Examiner/Archives/Jan1...

BANTRY is now as badly off as Skibbereen. Could we give a more fearful description? Impossible.
We have only time, this post, to call attention to our report of ten inquests more in Bantry, and allow the following extract, hastily selected from a private letter, to speak the rest:--

"Each day brings with it its own horrors. The mind recoils from the contemplation of the scenes we are compelled to witness every hour. Ten inquests in Bantry-- there should have been at least two hundred inquests. Each day-- each hour produces its own victims-- Holocausts offered at the shrine of political economy. Famine and pestilence are sweeping away hundreds-- but they have now no terrors for the poor people. Their only regret seems to be that they are not relieved from their suffering and misery, by some process more speedy and less painful. Since the inquests were held here on Monday, there have been not less than 24 DEATHS from starvation:: and, if we can judge from appearances, before the termination of another week the number will be incredible.


The European Shoah

http://www.world-war-2.info/holocaust/

"Shoa, also spelled Shoah and Sho'ah, Hebrew for "Destruction", is the Hebrew term for the Holocaust. It is used by many Jews and a growing number of Christians due to theological discomfort with the literal meaning of the word Holocaust; it is considered theologically offensive to imply that the Jews of Europe were a sacrifice to God."

"Many Roma (Gypsy) people use the word Porajmos, meaning "Devouring" to describe the Nazi attempt to exterminate that group."

The following are estimates of those exterminated in the Nazi Shoah:

5.6–6.1 million Jews
3.5–6 million Slavic civilians
2.5–4 million POWs
1–1.5 million political dissidents
200 000–800 000 Roma & Sinti
200 000–300 000 handicapped
10 000–250 000 homosexuals
2 000 Jehovah's Witnesses
Hi Stewart,

Regarding the above, is it OK for the "Roma Gypsy) people [to] use the word Porajmos, meaning "Devouring" to describe the Nazi attempt to exterminate that group" as their own UNIQUE name for what was done to their people by the Nazis?
Hi Paul,

1. Porajmos

I believe Porajmos ('Devouring') is limited to describe the Nazi policy of extermination of Roma people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porajmos
http://www.izieu.com/Sinti/
http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/aa021099a.htm

There seems to be no commonly recognised word to describe the Nazi policy of mass exterminating people. There are certainly those who use 'Holocaust' in the broadest sense which includes Salvs, Roma and handicapped etc. Choice of the term Shoah may in it's original sense be limited to describe the mass extermination of Jewish people. My question is how do we name the general policy of extermination used by the Nazis for individual groups and for an over-arching term? Do we talk about the European Jewish Shoah or do we just leave Shoah as to describe the mass extermination of European Jews? Do we talk about the Roma Shoah or when we talk about the mass extermination of Roma people do we use the term Porajmos. How do we relate each of these exterminations in one word?

2. Other historical uses

Winston Churchill's use of holocaust to describe the Armenian Genocide:

"As for the Turkish atrocities ... helpless Armenians, men, women, and children together, whole districts blotted out in one administrative holocaust - these were beyond human redress" (Winston Churchill, The World in Crisis, volume 4: The Aftermath, New York, 1923, p. 158)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#cite_ref-10
Hi Stewart...

Yes: Regarding Porajmos ('Devouring') and Holocaust.

That is why Jews started to use the word Shoah as the Jews' UNIQUE name for what was done to the Jewish people by the Nazis.

There are many other (generic) terms and words that can be used to name the Crimes Against Humanity committed by the Nazis in 20'th century. And so using the term The European Shoah is simply a naive and unnecessary (and inappropriate) attempt to expropriate the use of the word Shoah and the term The Shoah for generic purposes.

I really do not understand why you choose to use the term The European Shoah.

I would consider the use of a term like The European Porajmos the way you used The European Shoah to be a gross insult to the unique pain of the Roma People.

I repeat: There are many other (generic) terms and words that can be used to name the Crimes Against Humanity committed by the Nazis in 20'th century. Shoah and Porajmos are just not such words.
Use of the term European Shoah

Paul,

In reply to:

http://www.mepeace.org/forum/topics/bolivia-cuts-ties-with-israel?p...

Here are examples of persons or organisations who have used the term European Holocaust.

Justice Souter – European Holocaust 389 US 429 (1968) cited in 1. 69 Brook. L. Rev. 1313 (2003-2004)
Empowering States When It Matters - A Different Approach to Preemption [article]
Chemerinsky, Erwin

Kurihara Sadako, The literature of Auschwitz and Hiroshima
7 Holocaust and Genocide Studies (1993) p. 79

Tom Farer, Restraining the Barbarians: Can International Criminal Law Help, 22 Hum Rts Q 90 (2000) p. 112

Richard Briffault, The Contested Right to vote, 100 Mich. L. Rev. 1506 (2001-2002)
Legal History [reviews], p. 1572

European Holocaust Rembereance Day 26-27 January
http://www.efi-eu.org/content/view/54/61/

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/babiyarholocaustmemorialnazimassacr...
Look for "European Holocaust Education program"

European Holocaust Remembrance Day 2008 - Excerpt
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=H9bTBPYUgUk

http://teachers.henrico.k12.va.us/byrd/hunnicutt_w/EuropeanHolocaus...

I chose the term Shoah given concern about the use of the term Holocaust. I used the word European to identify the region where the genocide took place. There are various reasons why this is important. It is important to remember the location of the tragedy. The significance becomes apparent when you consider the irony that the Palestinian Arabs had to pay for a crime that was committed in Europe by Europeans and not Arabs. This is an important factor to remember.

The European Shoah

Hi Stewart,

My initial related responses were polite and conciliatory. This response to your final honest response is no longer overly polite or conciliatory. It is just plain English,

Here is my very brief response to your http://www.mepeace.org/xn/detail/661876:Comment:195161 , In that response, regarding your use of the term The European Shoah, you yourself explicitly and/or implicitly acknowledge that:

  1. Holocaust really is the common term that most people use for the Nazi's barbarity in Europe.
  2. You REALLY know why Jews started to use the word Shoah. You know that it is he Jews' UNIQUE name for what was done to the Jewish people by the Nazis. You obviously have a problem with The Jews' name for that which the Jews suffered! (For you Porajmos is demonstrably OK for the Roma, but Shoah is demonstrably not OK for the Jews)
  3. You clearly invent the term The European Shoah. to include non-Jews obviously and deliberately to obfuscate the significance and sacred and cultural meaning of the term "The Shoah" to Jews. And also you to try to deliberately hijack and subvert and devalue the use of the Jews' term, "The Shoah", for your single-minded and dogged and unilateral advocacy (crusade?) on behalf of the Palestinian People.

All of the above demonstrably is your lucid and calculated and deliberate and informed choice. That is fine.

I now consider that your use and justification of The European Shoah. is clearly intended to malign and to offend The Jewish People and that it is a deliberately calculated and malicious affront to The Jewish People.

I repeat: My initial responses were polite and conciliatory. This response to your final honest response is no longer polite and conciliatory. It is just plain English,

I am saddened to learn that one who I thought had real integrity does not seem to demonstrate the kind of integrity they claim and that I value.

Case (in my view) proven and closed.


And yes. Stewart quickly seconded the vicious personal attacks upon and incitement to ban (kill?) off David on this site. None of his bluntness was anywhere near as snide and insidious as what I consider this example of yours to be.
That should come as no surprise, given that the Jews of Palestine have been under constant attack since the 19th century, with major massacres occurring in 1920, 1921, 1929 in which Hebron was ethnically cleansed of Jews in a giant massacre, 1937, and on though what became institutionalised terrorist attacks till the suicide bombings and missile attacks of modern times ... all with the same aim, to get the Jews out.

But what is supported, is nothing more than a financial incentive, a world away from "pushing Arabs out", which I'd be surprised if you found even 1% of the population favouring. Contrast that to over a century of murders designed to "push the Jews out", or in Nasser's inimitable words "push the Jews into the sea".

Egypt under Sadat abandoned that desire, and there was peace. As soon as Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and the rest of the PA abandon it too, there will also be peace.
Mick... if history is important to you.. . why do you encourage people who support Israel to go on about lies of the history of Israel. Recently, when there was the discussion that Israel didn't exist until 1948 and that Palestine was created by the League of Nations; you sat back and let your fellow supporter lie to the list. Every time you correct someone on this list because of language; yet let Israel's supporters pass untruths as history, your are doing the truth of Israel a disservice. AND; your credibility suffers too.

I don't understand why the history of the Jews in Palestine doesn't deserve the truth from their own people. That dishonors your ancestors.

But... it's a pattern isn't it.

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