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someone (actually from machsom) posted this video along with a long diatribe of how israel violates palestinians at checkpoints and then later removed it. i watched it carefully and had a few questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bcOX3ipa80

1.) original poster, why did you remove your post?

2.) what was so offensive about this? i've had more intensive personal searches going into a shopping mall. not only that, there are frequent (and might i even say daily) roadblocks WITHIN israel. license plates are checked, cars are stopped, people get out, people get in and go on their way. if i were to mock the police or even mall security, i'm sure i'd be held too. and if you'll notice the driver is wearing a shirt with the state of israel and palestine and written all over it is palestine. even fatah has agreed to a two-state solution, but this guy was wearing a shirt that indicated that he didn't quite agree. maybe he should have just waved a flag that said, "i'm still for the armed struggle! put the jews into the sea!"

3.) when the soldiers asked the people to get back in the van and told them they would be free to go and they refused, isn't it a bit silly to claim they were detained?

4.) when someone says things like "we want to die" and "we want to make problems for you" what IS the correct response?

5.) how long did you sit at that spot until you saw that ONE event? how many hours, days, weeks, months did it take before you found "something" to show people?

6.) do you think your presence provokes palestinians to behave differently? i see the one guy who was making problems constantly glance into the camera. what a show he put on! i personally feel that the camera presence encourages people to cross lines of appropriateness because they want to put on a show and are hoping to be victims on camera. i think it intensifies conflict, rather than reduces.

7.) what's the deal with this checkpoint now? did you find only this one occasion since this one's closure?

8.) do you also monitor the palestinian police? if not, why not?

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Thank you Lindsey for inserting some sanity into an insane propaganda subject talking point.

I live in a democracy known as the United States of America yet spend an enormous amount of time being in lines and being questioned as a result of Middle Eastern terrorism.

We must put back sanity into discussions .

Again thank you.
A.J.,

I haven't seen you that happy and content for ages.

That's the only thing that lightens up this whole thread :)
This is a positive observation :)
Oliver, my buddy

In view of your peoples history, I would not be so smug and at least try to hide your disdain for Jews and Israel.

Nicht War Mein Herr?
There is no "disdain" and you know that.

Machsom Watch is an important organisation and "propaganda" is certainly not what it does. But I'm sure that many people on the 'far right' spectrum would like to ban such invaluable efforts.

I'd like to hear your opinion on the case of Ezra Nawi (see Dana's discussion).
Different people (may well) have different and differing views about Machsom Watch.

Machsom Watch's primary weapon is publicity. Is that publicity not propaganda?
Propaganda: Information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause.
Here is some info about "THE OTHER ZIONISTS" a documentary made about Machsom Watch shown around the world to much acclaim.

My source now: http://muslimvillage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28804&mode=... . "THE OTHER ZIONISTS" 10:45 pm, ABC TV Sunday 3 December 2006

Every day in Israel a group of older Jewish women volunteers monitor the checkpoints dividing Israel and the Palestinian territories. They belong to Machsom Watch, a group which believe hostility and resentment at checkpoints "builds terrorism". By observing and, at times, intervening they believe their presence is reducing tensions.

In that "documentary", one of Machsom Watch one of their leaders blithely and hysterically claims that Palestinian women were regularly raped by Israeli soldiers at checkpoints. Until I saw that, Machsom Watch had my respect. After that, I started to seriously doubt Machsom Watch's credibility and real motives. .
Paul,

it's your decision to judge the deeds of an organization by one - admittedly deeply hateful - action or statement. It's not what I would do. I stick with my opinion that MachsomWatch is a supremely valuable group. But in the end it's of course up to the people (the 'receiving end' of the organization's publicity efforts) to interpret the findings and build an own opinion. We all do that differently - and that's another point that shows how democracies 'live'.
Oliver

Lame protestation or not, the nature of the proverbial beast is what it is.

I have said all that I will say on the subject.
Lindsey,

Eva who posted the original post was baned in the past from Mepeace due some behavior conflicts. She mistakenly considered a general invitation invitation to join mepeace as personal. she is now back baned, so the post was deleted due Ning platform automation.

The question of the Israeli Palestinians relationship is relevant, and the video she posted emphasis the delicate relationship. Different people give different interpertation of the video and as you response show - some think it is Israeli fault others see it as palestinian fault.

In this conflict there are humans who are affected as the people who were filmed, and as you getting into a public building in Israel. people with different political orientations use this to prove their interpertation of the conflict while we suffer the results as Arabs and as Israelis. as you know some people get into far more aggressive expression from both sides.

As mepeace.org is multi-political and different people with different world views and interpertation write here, it is better to focus on the questions and bring your view then attack the other side view. we are all have different interpretations, and at the end of the conflict we are all, with the different interpretations, going to share one future. so no need to judge the other side, but it is good to express your judgment and interpertation on the issues.
I didn't mean to judge "the other side," and I don't like to think in "sides." I'm on the side of peace and I don't think this filming actually helps, I think it hurts... regardless of what "side" you are on. I think the fact that the people were held so long is machson's fault!

The presence of the camera puts a new element into the interaction that intensifies conflict. It's common knowledge that people behave one way when they think nobody is looking and another when the know someone is.

I also think that putting someone on film (without their permission) and then later writing a narrative to it is just plain wrong! I bet nobody here would enjoy having themselves filmed in their daily lives, only to later have a narrative put to it (without having given permission!) Film me for three hours at work and I might wanna tell you to f*** off too! It's must be quite unnerving for the soldiers to have a camera pointed at them by people who are hellbent on making them look bad. They've got more patience than I do, I don't know what I'd do if I had to deal with that! And as for the Palestinians, I'm not so sure about this, but I was told it was rude to photograph veiled women. And besides, when I photograph people, I always ask first and say where the photos will go, if not it's a violative process, particularly for religious women and children.

And then again, there are the people who see that camera and boy are they ready to put on a show. In fact, they can just say anything they want, because any sort of retaliation to them is going to be on film! No need to worry, provoke the soldiers all you want, machsom is watching and will paint the soldiers in a bad light. Imagine roles were reversed and the soldiers said that to Palestinians how much outrage there would be...

While it's certainly valuable to have people monitoring sensitive areas where certainly abuse has occurred, by doing so in such a one-sided fashion really makes them lose credibility! It seems like they aren't monitoring, but rather that they're waiting for something sexy to happen!

Why not include reports of how many people had positive interactions? How long it took on average to pass through? Why not survey people and provide some real information? I'm all for monitoring, but THIS machsom is not doing anything more than propaganda. I know people are against this, for that, but I think that this method helps nobody and gives only subjective information. Call me crazy, but I put more value in something objective...

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