mepeace.org

defend the mepeace.org platform from endless blame game - act locally and think globally


I do not defend the war nor the Zionist movement. I do try to defend the mepeace.org platform from endless blame games that bring verbal aggression and defuse our human ability to connect and work together for a better future.

I do not know if you recognize your ideological roots, or you may think you do not have them, but the text some write have one-sidedness that expresses their perspective of the conflict - evil Zionists/Arabs have evil plans.

I am not here to educate any of you or convince you, I am here to invite you to recognize that there are many Israelis and Jews who see in Zionism different merits then what some think Zionism is, there are many Palestinians and Arabs who see in Palestinian nationality different merits then what some think Hamas is.

So the way some people write here may insult and make others feel uncomfortable.

We created mepeace.org as multi-political platform to enable a person to connect, hence have opportunities to co-create something that supports change. When people come to the discussion forum and invest in long posts to prove that Zionists or Hamas are terrorists who need to be punished or that in fact the Jews/Arabs were here first; when such expression is published some members get distracted from our goals, putting their energy into educating others instead of approaching each other in ways that are mutually respectful and constructive.

So I ask the wise and responsible members to act locally and think globally - respond to topics and remember that mepeace.org is a platform to enable the whole community of humans to connect and work for a change that includes all of us and enables manifestation of the idea of peace we all share.

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Basil, the vast majority of Israeli Jews have been born in Israel. So does that not make them indigenous?

Where did you hear that Kurdish Jews and Yemenite Jews converted to Judaism? Either way, in most cases it was probably for marriage.

In the Quran, and in the Christian Bible as well, are there calls to convert or "save" non-believers? How about in the Hebrew Bible? Or in the Talmud? Of course the Hebrew Bible and Talmud deal with conversion, but not as a mitzvah.
Hello Michael, I hope you don't mind my reponse.
What made and still makes the European immigrant Jews foreigners to Palestine is the fact that they did not speak the language, they did not share the culture with the people of the land and did not have intentions to assimilate. They came to do something different than everyone in the entire region. I don't see where that has changed. I don't see where in history the Arabs gave immigrants a hard time at all but then, none of them came to Palestine in overwhelming masses with an army. You speak about a partition between Jews and Arabs when before in Palestine the Jews, Muslims and Christians did not need a partition to live together. They did not need peace groups to work out any deals between the parties. So something about Zionism is wrong obviously. You speak about a partition when 70% of Palestinians since 2007[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution] and now all of the political parties[http://www.jkcook.net/Articles3/0442.htm#Top] , prefer a one state for all with equal citizenship and responsibilities. They see through the 2 state as a stall tactic. In 1949 your people went against all the wishes the Palestinians. Something is wrong with that and since then it has not been made right. Not the right peace plan you say? or perhaps you say Israelis have never had a peace partner? Sure you did! And you still do. The one state solution is the only practical, fair, balanced and practical solution. The Palestinians rejected the partition in 1948 just as I would not to accept to partition my home with an immigrant Chinese family just because they had the guns. I may have to go along with it untill the tables turn but it is not a solution for durable peace because at the end of the day one party or the other has to be eliminated.
seansmom,

How is Hebrew and Judaism not a major part of the language and culture of the land? Where was the Hebrew Bible written? Where was the Jerusalem Talmud written? Where was Avraham buried? When people first referred to Palestine, they referred to Jews, only later Arabs.

Of course they did something different. Look around, practically every Middle East country is a dictatorship except Israel. Even Arabs don't have rights in Arab countries. How do you expect for Jews to demand equal rights when no one has rights? At least Israeli Arabs have more rights than Jordanian Arabs (both deserve more).

If you regard the old status quo when Jews, Muslims, and Christians living under a dictatorship in peace as great, I don't know what to say. And why are so many asylum seekers from Muslim countries going through Arab countries to Israel?

I don't see how your statement that all political parties support the one state solution is supported by your links. From all the polls I've seen, the one state solution is still the least favorable.

I don't see how forcing the Israeli government to give up 100% of its power is more likely or practical than forcing it to give up 5-10% (?) of its power.

Tell me, who was the Palestinian/Arab representative in 1949? Or even before that? Or how about now? Is it Abbas of Fatah or Hamas in Gaza? Hamas has already stated that it does not want what you want, a secular one state solution. From the article you linked, it seems like Abbas does not have the support of the Palestinians. Or maybe Fayyad, a good liberal statesman, but one that many Palestinians regard as an American appointee and has no political base.

At the conclusion of your statement we see why Israel might not trust the Palestinians. You say you would go along with the peace process, but only till you get a bigger club. You see no reservation on "eleminating" the other.
Michael,

My answer to what you said later in this thread, about who lived in Palestine 2000 years ago, is:

"So what?"

Two thousand years ago a lot of people who then called themselves Jews lived in Palestine. One hundred years ago a lot of people who then did not call themselves Jews lived in Palestine. Do you want everyone to go back to where their great-great-great... grandmother in the maternal line lived, 2000 years ago? Or 3000 years ago? or 4000 years ago?

I respect your feeling of identity with a certain religious/ethnical history, but I don't give it priority above anybody else's. In the Old Testament we read how "your ancestors" walked into Palestine from Egypt ruthlessly destroying all kinds of people who lived there before them, somehow because they had a more powerful God on their side than the others. As they say, history is written by the winners. I don't think anyone has a "right" to go and live where some ancestors used to live. Everyone has a right to want to do that, if that's how they feel, but they'ld better take account of the feelings and the history of the people who happen to be living there now, whether or not they claim to have God on their side.

Tell me: where do I have a right to live? Are you saying that people who don't remember where their ancestors came from have less rights to live where they live now, than people who claim that they do remember that they lived there 2000 years ago???????

[I have ancestors which I know about from England and from Ireland - Celts and Anglo-Saxons; very likely I also have French and Danish and Norwegian ancestry. My wife certainly has ancestors from Holland, Germany, Poland and France. My son is married to a Greek with ancestors from mainland Greece, Crete, present-day Turkey.]

Richard
Mark Twain is the Zionist authority, even Natenyahu uses Twain in his childishly whiny book "Durable Peace" where Natenyahu has the gall to offer Palestinians foreign residence status! Wow...thanks, Mr. Foreign invader!
Here's a thought on Mark Twain: Lynne Rogers describes in her "Literary Snapshots" how Mark Twain and William Thakeray viewed Palestine, which they understood as the Holy Land. Both men reacted to Palestine and its people negatively. However, as Rogers notes, complete rejection of the Holy Land would have meant casting aside Christianity and the values therefrom. Instead, she continues, they " ... kidnap Jesus and absorb him into their own cultural and imaginative landscape." Palestinians and Palestine are severed from the image of the Holy Land in the West. In fact 135 years after Twain's visit, his condemnation of Muslim rule in Jerusalem would be used by Zionists as justification for Israeli sole control over the city. Rogers sees the "cultural evacuation" of Jesus from Palestine as a license to justify an "... unchristian foreign policy ..." by Christian countries toward Palestine.
Edward Said's brilliant opening essay, "Palestine: Memory, Invention and Space," demonstrates the meticulous attention Zionists paid to reconstructing Jewish history to legitimate Zionist designs on Palestine. Said relates, "... how the history of ancient Palestine was gradually replaced by a largely fabricated image of ancient Israel, a political entity that in reality played only a small role in the area of geographical Palestine." Quoting the work of Keith Whitlam, Said observes that " 'The invented ancient Israel has silenced Palestinian history and obstructed alternative claims to the past.' " Said concludes that "What we never understood was the power of a narrative history to mobilize people around a common goal." As a result, the invented Zionist narrative dominates and carries credibility in the world.
You cannot trace any of your personal family history in Palestine so tell me again what I am missing of Palestine history? or are you missing something, like a family link that goes past 60 years? I am not being facetious, please don't misunderstand me and I hope no one hesitates to point out my lies, misconceptions (because I will be more clear when I need to be). Palestinians know each other through names, they know where others came from in Palestine by name, they can even know some of a persons personal history through a family name. Is it the same for European Jews?
Bonnie

I am just amazed at your lack of knowledge about the area of Palestine and the Middle East. Your contribution is less than zero as your initial premise is blatantly false. I say that even based on Arab content.

Lets not waste each others time with your unsubstantiated propaganda or even beyond that. History is just that and not even you can change that , hard as you try
Even if there were people who called themselves Jews in Palestine for 3000 years does that mean that their and only their decendents (in the maternal line) have a universal right to always live there, to the exclusion of anyone who came later? What about the Indians who were in North America for 3000 years before the Europeans came? What about the earlier waves of North American Indians who were displaced by later waves? What about the Celts in England who were displaced by the Anglo-Saxons 1500 years ago; or the stone-age persons displaced by the Celts a thousand years before that? Are we to figure out where everyone's great-great-great...grandmother was anno BC 1000, and send them all back home?
well said Lilia!
As there are many wrong religious practices that bring war and hate, so there are important elements in all religious that help us human grew .. as a tree and create fruits of peace.

The conflict in not religious, religion arguments are being used but they are not the core of the conflict - any true muslim, Christian and Jew will tell you that.
it is sad "the children and orphans who are still living in tents suffering under the blockade are the ones who are suffering most."

so far I learned on 11,000 palestinian prisoners and not 110,000


Gaza people need their freedom, WB neeeds its indepandance and freedom. Israel is element in what happening ... there are elements in the Palestinian society who also effect the situation.

(You can have strong and excellent engine in your car, but fail to move because one nail in your wheel)

the one one-sided preachers actually try to solve the conflict by blame one of the sides. we need to work inside Israel and inside Palestine to change so we can work together at the end.
The latest figures from B'Tselem that I've seen put the number around 7,000 Palestinian prisoners.

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