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Netanyaho speech was different from the Obama one, as he was talking about "economic peace" and called arabs to invest in Israel he was not annosing any change in the settelments beside a statment that Israel will not extend its teritory (no new settelments).

My impression is that the speech was addressed to Israel more then it was a speech to the Arabs, Netanyaho was talking to the Israeli audience assure them he will keep his position.

What do you think?

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What a question! Pure Bibi's bullshit as expected...

I can't believe that Obama will buy this!

And for the Palestinians, it can only be a total nonstarter...
I would describe it differently but I am very disaponited to.

we got painful times coming ahead.
For once, we agree...
Why are you disappointed Mr Bar-on. Israel wants peace but it wants security even more.

I liked his rhetorical question "why is there no peace after 60 years?"
Mr Sami:

We know all about your blood and guts stories, so please just cut the proverbial crap. No one in interested any longer in this pure propaganda.

He was telling the Palestinians that 60 years is enough time to make peace and the bloodshed intensified when Israel was created. He is saying no more Hamastans on Israel's borders and he will not allow Palestinians ever again to threaten Israel.

Did you miss all that?

He wants your Arab brothers to come and help you start living a decent peaceful life. Abbass and Abu Rudeina and Erakat have replied with. Stop all settlements (Will not happen) allow refugees into Israel (not a snowball chance in Hell) and Jerusalem to be an Palestinian capital (even less of a snowball chance in hell)

ZE LO SHALOM HAVER!!!

Lets see if Obama can impress on the Palestinians the need for compromise or will he take the USA out of the negotiations to save his presidency
Sami

You are certainly entitled to your narrative and can write about it. But lets face facts. That narrative is getting a little long in the tooth.

You can blame Netanyahu, Ben Gurion, Begin, Shamir , Barak, Peres or even Rabin. You have completely ignored what Netanyahu said. Why have we no peace after 60 years and that includes years when there were no checkpoints and no occupation.

He is absolutely right on the money when he says "ISRAEL. all of us want peace". Would it not be nice if the Arabs took him at his word and tested him before nay saying.
Luc:

You can blame us from now until doomsday but it will not change the fact that Israel is in possession and will not give up any part until and unless it is satisfied that it will not be threatened ever again

the current government will answer terror with a robust defense. So if the Palestinians will continue their fight.
they can expect a bloody nose and if they do than do not cry foul.
The first reaction is disapointment, we wished the Israelis to see that the settelments need to go and make them take responsibility. We wished that Bibi will eco Obama call tp change.

We can be disapointed that Bibi is blind about the palestinian position and that he only seek how to control them so they will not attack the Zionist project - i.e. Free Zionists state is more important then free Palestinian state, why? because The zionists are stronger and have USA support.

But what are the positive signes?

In May 2002 Netanyahu led the Likud to sign a decision that say NO to Palestinian state.

"The biggest mistake that can be made is to promise [to the Palestinians] the establishment of their own independent state." So said Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu exactly seven years ago, in a strong warning against giving in to international pressure on Israel in "final status" talks with the Palestinian Authority.

It was in May 2002, when the Likud Central Committee held a stormy session in which it voted overwhelmingly for then-MK Netanyahu's position against the formation of a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria, and against the position of then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Sharon had in the months beforehand implied his support for a demilitarized PA state, prompting Netanyahu and other party leaders to put the issue to a vote – and a PA state lost.


Now Netanyahu ended this line of "resistance", he recognize that Palestinian state need to be created and that no new settelments can be build. he ask for recognition of Jewish Israel, and that the Palestinians will not be able to threat Israel violently or demographically

Now the Palestinian question is that, Do you want a Palestinian state, or you wish to have one state solution.

The opertunity that the Palestinia has is to push for Independed palestinian state, and while negotiating on conditions, make sure to enter a new phase that is Palestinian focused instead of Israeli focused.

- Palestinians Fatah and Hamas can recognize Israel as Jewish state, it is up to the us the Israelis(arabs and Jews) to deal with it and the "external" demands from palestinians to reject Israel as Jewish state creates delayes in building the Palestinians state.
- Palestinians Fatah and Hamas can recognize that the old political games are over, as the power holding of the Palestinians society they should find a solution that will enable practical political system in Palestine, a political system that serve all the Palestinains and see the National project of building a Palestinian state as long term project.
- Palestinian territory, financial help, education, health, anti-poverty programs need to be layed out The Palestinian state should start tomorrow
-Palestinian should demand a "Israeli-Palestinian" top governance that can put laws for both nations and be elected by both nations. This body can in future change the restrictions that initial agreements put on Palestine (esspecially the palestinian airpoert and independed contracts) this leagal budy in future should invite more states (as Jorden, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon) and form the Middle-East Palestine confederate nations that include Israel and work to stabelise and stregthen this region.
Basil.

Lovey is my nickname that I use on the internet just as Sami the Bedouin and Sophie A.

Netanyahu is being taken to task by his own government for giving away too much and would have a hard time selling even an agreement based on his speech. The rejection of the Arabs makes it that much harder.

You and Neri can dream all you want but the Israeli electorate decides and they have decided only recently.That is democracy. The days of 1947-1948 are gone and even the days of 1967-1968 are gone and the Palestinians will not get what was offered then. The only way to stop the expansions of settlements and get a Palestinian state is through negotiations of give and take.

The consensus is that the built up settlements will go to Israel (even Carter is now acknowledging it) Jerusalem will not be divided again. There will be no influx of refugees to Israel.

The Palestinians will have to acknowledge Israel as a Jewish state and not be able to threaten Israel again.

That is the will of the people speaking. You can negotiate now or take your chances with a more nationalist Israel in the future. The decision is yours and yours alone.
Neri:

I have spoken a few times about Israel being a democracy and decisions being made at the ballot box. A few peacemakers or activists are in no position to decide Israeli policy.

Netanyahu has spoken and even though there is major opposition he has spoken on behalf of the electorate.

I am aware what you and Basil and Sami expect but it was not going to happen so it would be helpful to suggest solutions based on Netanyahu's speech. That is the only game in town for now.
Dear Sami,

As mepeace.org is multipolitical platform, we have opertunity to read some of the extrimists views from Palestine and from Israel.

The Zionists are still here dreaming of a Jewish state, most of them dream of a Jewish state side Palestinian state but we have many who are more extrime (as more extrim palestinians) that will push their ideology at your face beliving you have to live with it (Netanyahu style).

The change in Zionists is complex and deep, we are going from "no Palestinian state" to "Palestinain state" that should end by freeing Gaza and WB to manage their life and create a Palestinain National state first time in history.

The Extrimists, in Israel and in Palestine are people who we will have to live with, it is our challange and here we can practice wisdom and tolerance to the ugly and hate comments they bring.
Neri:

The idea of a Palestinian Arab state has been around since 1937 and the white paper. Israel has not stopped it from happening but the Palestinians themselves have and they are still doing it.

I presume that by Zionists you mean all Jews?

Which side of the divide are you and Sami?

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