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Freedom Black Day

Today morning I got up on the horrific news about the Freedom Flotilla cargo ships. I haven’t expected that Israeli terrorists will deal with the Peaceful activists in this bloody way, they attacked them without caring about law nor humanity. I used to know that Israeli soldiers can easily kill Palestinians but to kill International activists who come to support people under siege and break it ... I cannot believe that but it's the truth . The Israeli navy killed more than 15 activists, detained others and the freedom ships. It's much obviously that Israelis are terrorists and act against humanity and human rights. They don't care about International law or they don't find anyone to stop them.... Who can Stop Israeli massacres against Palestinians and International Activist? Who can end the siege of Gaza? Who can end the Israeli Occupation of Palestine? If the leaders of this world don't want to stop the Israeli Terrorists, We are the people of this world must stop them. Everyone must take action against those terrorists to make this world safe and peaceful.



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First , I mean the Israeli leaders who give soldiers orders to kill civilians , and what make me angry that I havent seen any demonstartion in Israeli against what israeli navy have committed against the activist .
and if they dont care about the souls of people , i will not care about words .
Hey , I respect your opinion .
I care about others and respect all Israelis who respect me . I am here for peace . I am not going to bomb myself to react against this massacre . I act against Israeli Leaders who give permissions for killing . I struggle against against the terrorsists like Natanyaho , Liberman , Barak , Ashknazi ............. Israelis here should act against those peace killers .
Dear friend Adham,

There is at this moment demonstartion of Israelis critisizing Israel government over gaza seige and this sad events of this day.

This kind of events are very strong emotionally and for many of my friends and for myself it deliver a message of no hope and that we are trapped in endless vilent strugle.

while Israelis see this fotage of the event:

Many of them will justify the use of force, but I agree with you that when any side decide to use force he engage in some kind of terror.


For the peace we all wish to create we do not want such events to happend, nor we want Gaza seige or even West Bank Israeli control. the Peace we wish to create challange many radicals around us, now many Israeli right wing radicals attack the government for not forcing more hardship on Gaza ... and lIsraeli left wing radicals attack the government for not letting this ships to pass and end the Gaza seige. but our reality is much more complex and we must hoold the middle position which recognize all parties of this bloody game and recognize that with the different side we have also radicals within each society who fight to gain power within their society.

The radicals play with our emotions to put us in their sides. they use relity and violant event to justify their position.

In this day I reminded myself:

1) The Settelments are in halt for the approximity talks, Israel plan to evacuate some of them
2) Abbas said there is a way to solve the territory problems with land swap
3) Hamas said it agree for Israel in 1967
4) Abbas planed to visit gaza for 1st time in 4 years for developing Palestinian unity
5) Fayyad continue his work to build palestinian capacities

yes, it is not ideal put the potential for peace now is high and while this kind of events of violance come from radicals from both sides who wish us all to forget the two-state solution and the potential of Independent Palestinian State as stage for peace, and this is what I think is important now, esspecially when we experience lost in life that we all agreed shold not happend and avoided by all sides.
Neri, thank you very much for posting this video. I find it very helpful - more so than any of the other video footage I've seen - in understanding how the situation unfolded as it did.

Do you really mean to blame the "radicals" (Israeli and Palestinian), as you appear to do here? My impression has been that you generally prefer to avoid blaming - or to blame only the "blamers," whoever they may be.

And do you really mean to define "radical" as anyone whose opinion about what the next stage will look like differs from your own view (of two independent states)?

And finally, what is so radical about wanting the Israeli government to let these ships pass and to lift the blockade?? Unless you mean that a little menschlichkeit (humaneness) would be a radical quality (in the best sense of the word!) to inject into this bloody conflict.

Blessings,
-Hayyim
Basil, I'm not sure why you addressed this to me. To join in with something I said? To disagree with something? Maybe some of both?

You are quite right about the multinational makeup of participants in the flotilla, and certainly the fact that the attack occurred in international waters is a major reason for the widespreaad condemnation of Israel for it (as illustrated by the news story from Ireland you posted to the mepeace discussion I started on "Free Gaza, Israeli piracy, and nonviolence).

I don't think you've correctly understood what motivated Neri's comments about radicals (and he did not mention "religious radicals" - though I might fit in that category, myself), but I'll let him speak for himself on that if he sees fit.

Love of one's race is an odd concept to me, since the only real race is the human one. But I cannot agree that love of one's cultural community - whether religious, national, or whatever - encourages hatred, or that there is too much of such love. How can love encourage hatred? What you are calling love seems to me not love at all, but fear, and perhaps egotistical pride. I wish people like Benjamin Netanyahu, for example, felt more love for the Jewish people, because love engenders a kind of quiet confidence that needn't rely on aggression to assert its rightful place in the world. But I recognize the still-recent historical trauma that drives his fear, and that of many other Jews (and, in a roughly parallel way, many Palestinians).

But I couldn't agree more with your last sentence, which echoes my own earlier statement.
Dear Hayyim,

I do not blame, I think the radicals (religious/ideologic/egocentric etc.) cannot be blamed, the issues are regarding the dynamics and understanding it.

The causes of the killing come from combination of Israeli radicals and pro-palestinians (Hamas) radicals who pushed the situation to its edge. But we need to understand the dynamics.

I think that we need to review what this activity done for the "non-violent" movments where it make them less trusted and missing the importance of non-violent approach in the Peace activities.

The Radical element is not wanting that Gaza Siege will end, the Radical is in the way it is managed. the radical is to be pro-hamas and not pro-Gazans.

The situation of Gaza is complex and the siege is an element in power structure of the conflict between Hamas ideology and violent acts towards Israeli citizens. The issue of ending the siege will not end the conflict and if you support Hamas you support radical view of how this conflict need to end (distruction of Israel and Muslem state).

and last thing about Paradoxes, if you wish to think that reality is a rational good vs. bad war go ahead and try to convince the "bad" to be "good". Hamas people beilve they are doing good .... so are the Israelis by blaming any of the sides we do not contribue resolution we are contributing the repetition of agression and violance. This conflict will not end by the Good killing the Bad and live happy ever after. this conflict will end when we , arabs and jews, find the path of co-creation of our future that include all of us. the people on this ship thought that it is justify to kill an israeli solder and you say there is nor justification to kill them.
Neri,

I meant to be asking about your more general comments about radicals that seem to me to blame them for the conflict as a whole. One example:

The radicals play with our emotions to put us in their sides. they use relity and violant event to justify their position.

But one needn't be a radical to do that. You and I do the same thing every time we use historical events as evidence for the validity of our perspective. There are many parties, not just radicals, whose blameworthy actions have contributed (and continue to do so) to the overall conflict. Singling out just one party as you did earlier - whether that party is the Israelis, the Palestinians, the political leaders, the radicals, or the blamers - seems both false and counterproductive to me, as you often say to others.

Since your response focuses more narrowly on the recent incident, it doesn't really address my earlier question about blame for the conflict as a whole. But it does raise a new question for me. I think it's fine to assign blame (or to give credit) to the parties responsible for particular actions, as long as that is done with consistent standards of judgment for all sides. But it seems to me that the overall blame of radicals that you expressed earlier is distorting your perception of what happened with the Free Gaza flotilla. You blame Israeli radicals and pro-Hamas radicals for it as though the Israeli government and military had no responsibility at all for sending armed commandos into international waters to forcibly intercept ships flying under the flag of another nation! Or do you mean to include Ehud Barak, for example, as one of the Israeli radicals with primary direct responsibility for the incident?

Blessings,
-Hayyim
David go away!!!!
Among many other things, one unfortunate fact about todays Flotilla Crash will remain the same: Everyone will believe whatever they want to believe. "Truth is the first casualty," unfortunately. There is something, on the other hand, very visible right now, to everyone. Leaders and the media of the both countries (Turkey and Israel) are unyieldingly flooding the public discourse with language of dissent, hate and revenge. As a pro-peace community, it is up to each and every individual to avoid from falling into such trap and it is up to us (well maybe not you) to demand serenity, amity and reason be secured.
David you are boring !!!

go away !!

Actually forget about it I will go away
David

You are supporting the continues of the Slowocaust by ignoring the complexity of the reality you sugget one sided flat view that cannot be accepted and with its promiss you support the continues fiight with Israel that you describe as prime evil.

this is no way to enable change nor a path to peace.

The most damaged in this incident is not Israel, it is the non-violence peace activists who now considered as potential threat.
Hi guys,

I would like to enter te debate from the comfort of Sydney Australia where I like to think I am far enough away to be objective - although how can one be 100% objective over an incident as tragic as this one?
Guys calling one side or another a terrorist for me does not seem appropriate if we want to promote peace given those being accused will take strident steps to play down the terrorist banner levelled at them.
Promoting peace in whatever form first requires no finger pointing and I understand this is not easy given how passionate people are. My heart goes out to those who died and their families - may god have mercy on their souls.
I am reminded of a quote by Amelia Earhart who once said "Courage is the price that life exacts for graning peace" in a moment of tragedy let us show love and let all of us choose being courageous and together we can break ths cycle of violence. Taso

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