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Hamas attacks and risks civilians ===> Good people blame Israel and Jews

Self-evident truths (should) need no introduction.

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Hi Basil,

Now while the circumstances of Palestinians are so dire, some here and elsewhere try to sound balanced.

Before?

Carol started this http://www.mepeace.org/forum/topics/sderot-ashkelon-and-the-negev on December 17, 2008, not because she had inside information. She cares and can think. Hamas declared war in way that Hamas knew could not and would not be ignored.

Read it all. Make up your own mind. Read the related postings of the apologist propagandists there.

The facts and signs are all there for those who care to think without ideological blinkers.

Curing rampant cancer sometimes requires radical surgery. We all know that even such radical surgery. does not always work. What is clear is that Hamas wanted to the surgery and the resultant suffering of the Gazan people for its political and ideological games and those played so ably and single-mindedly by it's supporters and apologists here and elsewhere.

The result? The only result that is not clear is the result of the political and ideological game. Most of the results on the long suffering people of Gaza were predicted and predicatable and know by anyone who can think..

Hamas attacks and risks civilians ===> Good people blame Israel and Jews
See also http://www.mepeace.org/xn/detail/661876:Comment:168191

Why blame both now when HAMAS was not blamed before?
Hi Basil,

You are new here and I am still learning how you think and what you think. All I can go by is what you write and your discussion and interaction style.

I do not excuse bad behavior, ANY bad behavior. I expect that bad behavior is condemned as such REGARDLESS of who the perpetrator is. As human beings, the Israelis and Palestinians have the same rights and responsibilities as all other human beings. Some here do not expect the same ethical behavior from Palestinians as they do from Jews, because according to such people the Palestinians are the "victims class" or some other such patronizing reason. I am not such a person.

You ask: "And why should you say both shouldn't be blamed when Hamas was not blamed before?"

You are correct about that. I am merely pointing out that I have no respect for those whose consciences only seem to cut in when Jews are not the only victims. Simple. I cannot respect the views of such people. Are you like that Basil? I really do not know.

I do know not that knowingly and deliberately exposing non-combatants to danger is unethical and is wrong and is criminal and is a war crime. That is what Hamas DEMONSTRABLY keeps on doing, and the honorable UN people and the honest and honorable press know that but almost never report it. Now is that just?

I see no good solutions. All we can do try to find the least-worst solution in the circumstances. Doing nothing (other than the blockade), I think is not now a viable option fort Israel. That was tried for too long.

Basil: You write that what Israel is doing in Gaza now is WRONG. Fine. So do I, really. What is your practical alternative, Basil?

Remember Hamas has refused the UN request that it stop attacking targets within Israel.

Real Face of Hamas, the Murderer Of Palestinians

This is vision recorded real Gazan people...

Hi Frank,

I am not a lawyer. I have no reason to doubt the legitimacy of of your grandfather's title deeds to the properties you mention in Jerusalem and Ein Karem, regardless of the formal status of any government then.

I posted the video simply because it seemed to offer credible evidence about Hamas' wanton violence. I think it does that. Watching it quickly before, I did not notice the banter about Palestine.

I agree Frank that making flippant and jingoistic claims detracts from its value as credible information. That is silly stuff. Much like the other silly stuff people say in fora like this. I am pleased that you have not joined that silliness...
Yes Basil; people here should talk about trying to make peace,

I also do not care for talk about civilians or others. People are just people, human beings. Killing is simply killing. People die.

I also do not care for you sporting (numerical) analogies. By implication, Basil you seem to be saying that not enough Jews died as a result of Hamas's war to justify what Israel is doing now. Disproportionality and all that.

I agree Basil. What's happening is insane except to those who glory in death.
Hi Basil.

For now, I am merely trying to focus on the immediate madness that must be stopped. Having said that though, stopping violence now alone is not enough. We must find a way for it to not recur real soon.

HOW? I think that Hamas must not be in a position afterwards to again inflict violence on the Gazan and Israeli people. Can Hamas be eliminated? Of course not.
Basil wrote:"if Hamas cannot smuggle weapons, then that would be fine" I agree. Theoretically.

Basil added "The question is getting a cease-fire that allows for foreign observers down there." I agree. Theoretically.

Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

Did such observers do their observing (of Hezballah) successfully in Lebanon before and after the 2006 war? Why should their observing of hams in Gaza be more successful and honest?
I blame Israel, but not for acting now. I blame Israel for A)Leaving Gaza in the first place and B)Not nipping it in the bud when the first rocket hit.
Paraphrasing: I think Israel should have used its nuclear weapons on Gaza. Afterall as long as there are Palestinians prevented from returning to their homes and lands, there will be resistance. We also know from Israeli intelligence studies taht the younger generations are more radical than the older generations. Things could get worse so I think nibbing it in the bud would be prudent under the circumstances. Plus what is the point of having nuclear weapons if you never use them. In any case white phosphorous being used now produces horrific burns in the survivors and can kill only so many while a properly used tactical nuclear devise can get the job done quicker. And the world public opinion is already against "us" (afterall tehy are Goyim with a gene for hatred which we don't have).
Masquerading as irony, Mazin's contribution above is simply hate-mongering. One of many such examples here.

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