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Loving Israel to death - Palestinian deniers and the end of the two state solution

Well done Tom Friedman on this piece.

It never ceases to amaze me the sycophancy of certain Republican US presidential hopefuls.  Pity the thought for what Gingrich and his cronies think of Native Americans. Would he suggest that Native Americans migrated to the region from surrounding 'lands' for economic work?

Friedman says our pro-Israel 'friends' in the US are either laying the path for an apartheid state, ethnic cleansing or a binational state.  Friedman as  traditional two state solutionist  (in the vein of the Oslo Accords) as such rejects the inflammatory and ahistorical statements made by Gingrich and right wing revisionists like Joan Peters.

As a background to the history of Palestinian people see:

http://israelandpalestinediary.blogspot.com/2010/12/finding-common-...

http://palestineisraelpopulation.blogspot.com/

Justin McCarthy, Palestine's Population During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods, 2001

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story5...

http://mepeace.org/forum/topics/quastion-from-palestinian?commentId...

http://www.palestineremembered.com/GeoPoints/Palestinian_History_Fo...

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/A-Survey-of-Palestine/S...


Newt, Mitt, Bibi and Vladimir

Thomas L Friedman

Published: December 13, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/opinion/friedman-newt-mitt-bibi-a...

I have a simple motto when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I love both Israelis and Palestinians, but God save me from some of their American friends — those who want to love them to death, literally.

That thought came to mind last week when Newt Gingrich took the Republican competition to grovel for Jewish votes — by outloving Israel — to a new low by suggesting that the Palestinians are an “invented” people and not a real nation entitled to a state.

This was supposed to show that Newt loves Israel more than Mitt Romney, who only told the Israeli newspaper Israel Hayom that he would move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem because “I don’t seek to take actions independent of what our allies think is best, and if Israel’s leaders thought that a move of that nature would be helpful to their efforts, then that’s something I’ll be inclined to do. ... I don’t think America should play the role of the leader of the peace process. Instead, we should stand by our ally.”


That’s right. America’s role is to just applaud whatever Israel does, serve as its A.T.M. and shut up. We have no interests of our own. And this guy’s running for president?
As for Newt, well, let’s see: If the 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians are not a real people entitled to their own state, that must mean Israel is entitled to permanently occupy the West Bank and that must mean — as far as Newt is concerned — that Israel’s choices are: 1) to permanently deprive the West Bank Palestinians of Israeli citizenship and put Israel on the road to apartheid; 2) to evict the West Bank Palestinians through ethnic cleansing and put Israel on the road to the International Criminal Court in the Hague; or 3) to treat the Palestinians in the West Bank as citizens, just like Israeli Arabs, and lay the foundation for Israel to become a binational state. And this is called being “pro-Israel”?


I’d never claim to speak for American Jews, but I’m certain there are many out there like me, who strongly believe in the right of the Jewish people to a state, who understand that Israel lives in a dangerous neighborhood yet remains a democracy, but who are deeply worried about where Israel is going today. My guess is we’re the minority when it comes to secular American Jews. We still care. Many other Jews are just drifting away.


I sure hope that Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, understands that the standing ovation he got in Congress this year was not for his politics. That ovation was bought and paid for by the Israel lobby. The real test is what would happen if Bibi tried to speak at, let’s say, the University of Wisconsin. My guess is that many students would boycott him and many Jewish students would stay away, not because they are hostile but because they are confused.


It confuses them to read that Israel’s foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, who met with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin of Russia last Wednesday, was quoted as saying that the recent Russian elections were “absolutely fair, fre... Yes, those elections — the ones that brought thousands of Russian democrats into the streets to protest the fraud. Israel’s foreign minister sided with Putin.


It confuses them to read that right-wing Jewish settlers attacked an Israeli army base on Tuesday in the West Bank, stoning Israeli soldiers in retaliation for the army removing “illegal” settlements that Jewish extremists establish wherever they want.


It confuses them to read, as the New Israel Fund reports on its Web site, that “more than 10 years ago, the ultra-Orthodox community asked Israel’s public bus company, Egged, to provide segregated buses in their neighborhoods. By early 2009, more than 55 such lines were operating around Israel. Typically, women are required to enter through the bus back doors and sit in the back of the bus, as well as ‘dress modestly.’ ”


It confuses them to read a Financial Times article from Israel on Monday, that said: “In recent weeks, the country has been consumed by an anguished debate over a series of new laws and proposals that many fear are designed to stifle dissent, weaken minority rights, restrict freedom of speech and emasculate the judiciary. They include a law that in effect allows Israeli communities to exclude Arab families; another that imposes penalties on Israelis advocating a boycott of products made in West Bank Jewish settlements; and proposals that would subject the supreme court to greater political oversight.”


And it confuses them to read Gideon Levy, a powerful liberal voice, writing in Haaretz, the Israeli daily, this week that “anyone who says this is a matter of a few inconsequential laws is leading others astray. ... What we are witnessing is w-a-r. This fall a culture war, no less, broke out in Israel, and it is being waged on many more, and deeper, fronts than are apparent. It is not only the government, as important as that is, that hangs in the balance, but also the very character of the state.”
So while Newt is cynically asking who are the Palestinians, he doesn’t even know that more than a few Israelis are asking, “Who are we?”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/lieberman-russia-elec...

The elections, which were recently described by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as neither free nor fair, resulted with Putin's United Russia party winning less than 50 percent of Sunday's vote – a steep fall from its earlier two-thirds majority.

New Israel Fund

http://www.nif.org/index.php

Gender segregation in Jerusalem, CNN, 12 December 2011

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/12/12/pkg-flower-is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settler_violence

Israeli settlers clash with troops in West Bank
Jewish settlers vandalise Israeli army base in protest over planned evacuations of unauthorised settlement outposts
13 December 2011

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/13/israeli-settlers-clash-...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16158623

Maps of late 1800s Palestine

 

Maps from Baedecker's book

Jaffa

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/jaffa_1912.jpg

Baedeker's Maps of Palestine 1912

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_middle_east.html

 

Southern Palestine: Hebron, Gaza, Akaba 1:500,000

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/books/travel/593773/593773-c-136b-400.html

 

Sinai Peninsula Map 1:1,500,000

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/books/travel/593773/593773-c-212b-400.html

 

Map Syria and Palestine 1:3,000,000

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/books/travel/593773/593773-d-002-800.html

 

Population statistics

 

http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/En%20Demographics%20Factsheet%20v.1.pdf

 

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=0...

Links to further information on the population of Israel and Palestine

 

The Question of Palestine and the United Nations, United Nations, New York, 2008.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/DPI2499.pdf

 

The Palestine Question: A Brief History Prepared for, and under the guidance of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, 1 July 1980

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/38D6C47FC5FB0CDD852575D6006C70D4

 

The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem: 1917-1988 Part I, 1917-1947

http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/AEAC80E740C782E4852561150071FDB0

 

Population of Greater Palestine and Greater Israel (1851-1995)

http://palestineisraelpopulation.blogspot.com/

 

Encyclopaedia Britannica 11th Edition (1910-11). Cambridge University Press, p 604

http://www.archive.org/stream/encyclopdiabri20chis#page/604/mode/2u... [original]

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Palestine [html]

[Population 650,000, two thirds Moslems, rest Christians and Jews.]

Maps

1946 map of Palestine [includes hand drawn 1949 demarcation lines]

1:250,000

Compiled, drawn and printed Survey of Palestine August 1944

MDR 1509/12460

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story582.html

 

American Peace Now Settlement Interactive Map

http://peacenow.org/map.php

A map of depopulated villages

Palestine Land Society

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story1261.html

 

UK Cabinet Papers 1918

CAB 24/72 GT/6506 (cabinet papers)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mideaststrategy/5080134925/in/photostream

Map of Palestine 1889

http://www.archive.org/stream/palestine00cond#page/n303/mode/

Map of Palestine 1888

http://www.archive.org/stream/palestineillustr00temp#page/n39/mode/1up   p12


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PRE 1967 STATEMENTS:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the
Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country
was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is
the Zionists who introduced it".

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission,
1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".

- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".

- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at
the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:

"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly
lasted, as such, 22 years".

POST 1967 STATEMENTS:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians
and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political
reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes,
the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical
purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the
continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO
Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this
one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is
no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part
of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria.
Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true
representatives of the Palestinian people".

- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage
back to the original country their great grandparents came from.
Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but
ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle
East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants
from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and
origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia,
Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims
from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a
dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-
Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being
accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village
Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty
before his father settled in the area with six other families. The
town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

- Walid Shoebat, an "ex-Palestinian" Arab -

Walid is a proven liar... And still just more Syrian loving idiots. Fact the Syrian dream of greater Syria has been abandoned by all but a few extremist... But I guess it's goust lives on doesn't in Zionist propaganda to support the wild conspiracy theory that Palestinians invited themselves becuase they hate jews at "pick your date!" By the way this contradict your conspiracy theory that the Palis did the holocaust!  

  

http://www.danielpipes.org/174/palestine-for-the-syrians Up Danny Pipers says it was  lie too I win!

Autistic Socilist.

Can I quote you on that or do I simply rely on the PLO Charter. Was not Judea and Samaria and Gaza not part of the Palestinian vision of Palestine and therefore the PLO had no claim against either until 1967. Or is the PLO Charter simply a Zionist invention and lie.

So when did you start hating the Syrians? since 1967 or 1973 or before? I do find it laughable. The Intra Arab Politics and Power Play really bore me.

So Daniel Pipes is working for the Palestinians http://www.danielpipes.org/174/palestine-for-the-syrians this contains an alternate explanation for the Syria quotes... You really should know about this article any way being the arch duke Zionist nut you are!  

autistic socilist.SO NOW YOU ARE RESORTING TO PERSONAL ATTACKS.

I am a Zionist, I love Israel, I acknowledge History.

IS THIS A PROBLEM??????

Well you do seem to be unwilling to realize you are to the right of Danny Pipers. And being to the right of an arch duke Zionist I guess I apologize... Your an arch arch duke Zionist! And your not acknowledging history if you ignore evidence to the contrary of your views and take quotes out of there historical context! 

http://www.danielpipes.org/174/palestine-for-the-syrians Once again!

Really so Syrian loving nuts are who your gonna sight! I hate this website for allowing people like you in... You have nothing to do with peace!

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".

- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

That is just plain posturing on your behalf, Basil, and you know it. The quote is from 1946  and Syria like the other States of the area was part of  the Ottoman Empire so Syria-Palestine did not always exist. To take it to its nth degree , if Palestine did not exist than how could you have Palestinians?

It is ISRAEL not Palestine, that did NOT exist for 1800 years.

Sussan - The point is Israel/Judea did exist an a sovergn country with its capital Jerusalem 1800 years ago.  I am glad that you finally have the courage to admit that. Palestine, as a georaghical area also existed but, thats all it was, not a country of state.  Therefore from a purely historical basis the Palestinain people, as a people did not exist.  Anyone who lived in the area were called Palestinian, like Jews. As opposed to other countries inthe mideast, Lebonon, Egypt, Syria - these coutries were identified as such back to the biblical days, at least over 2000 years. Palestine was coined as much 1800 years ago by the Roman to try and erase teh Jewish connection to teh land. 

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