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addressing the refugees problem creating so much fear in Israel because no one is talking about it.
I think its time we will start to openly talk about a solution or at least what would sound reasonable to both sides. it is the core issue for peace
 
this is a starting point that I wrote... I ' ve been thinking about it for years but now finally we have a forum to talk about it  :)
 
I based it on UN 194
 
 
1. Israel should recognize the nakba the 800,000 palestines that were forced to leave.
2. all Palestinians refugees should be grant the right of return to the Palestinians state
3. Israel should pay compensation to those refugees that lost property in 1948
4. Israel should grant Israeli citizenship for those refugees that will find qualified, and would wish to live in Israel as Israelis in peace with their neighbors....
5. compensation should be payed to those Jewish refugees that lost property in Arab lands,
 
 
what do you think ?

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1. What does "recognition" of the Nakba mean...? That these people had a legitimate grievance that Israelis refuse to admit? Israel has admitted that it hasn't been completely fair to the Palestinians, indeed, but what does recognition of an immorally prolonged "refugee crisis" have to do with reality?

2. All refugees should receive just compensation i.e. become full members of said communities, without any preconditions, or then apply for a right of return that a potential "Palestine" would grant to these people. No other refugee problem has lasted this long, and considering that this has, says a lot about a society who is unwilling to compromise. To keep people 60 years as "refugees" by denying the opportunity is the most hypocritical demand in contemporary politics. It does not hold under historical scrutiny, yet the myth is still propagated.

3. The Palestinians should understand their responsibility in being driven from their homes, something that Israel was forced to do in dire circumstances. Compensation for being driven out in war is ridiculous, especially demanding it from an enemy who you expect to be wiped out, or deem illegitimate on an existential level.

4. Israel should grant citizenship only to those who it finds acceptable to be a citizen of the state. Everything else is imposed and fake and has nothing to do with justice.

5. It works both ways. What happened, happened. Let bygones be bygones. The lives and worlds of ME Jews in Arab countries has mostly disappeared and I think people are realistic enough not to make the same ridiculous demands as the prolonged Palestinian refugee crisis has done to the Palestinian people. To add, if this is the case, I also want compensation for the property and lands that my grandfather's family lost in Karelia, a territory that was conquered and seceded to the Soviet Union, who started an aggressive imperialistic war against its neighbors during the Second World War. I find myself more eligible, according to the notions of justice, to receive compensation than my Palestinian cousins do, as they are not innocent in any way of how they did not accept, many of them going on a warpath against the Jewish community in Palestine. Their position was understandable then, but to demand compensation for defense is absurd. It's time to let go of the past, because the past that was built for them, never existed.
Daniel thank you for your answer , I feel that the right of return and the refugees problem is the biggest fear for Israelis, it is my personal fear as well. and this is why I think its good for me to talk about it.



I did not understand the first half of your number two ( maybe its my English) but "All refugees should receive just compensation i.e. become full members of said communities, without any preconditions"

who should compensate them? Israel? what said communities ?
Hi, Ohad.

My comment was indeed a bit contradictory but as a I see it, just compensation means that Palestinian refugees should not be refugees. I have no recollection of a refugee crisis that has lasted for over 62 years. Do Palestinians have such a a just claim to return to their homes that they should live in squalor and as non-citizens, and even persecuted by [i]their fellow[/i] Arabs just because they fled or were forced to flee from their homes in war that they were a part of? To give it more perspective, Jews who fled from Arab countries were repatriated, why couldn't the Arabs not do the same to their Palestinian brothers who most likely share the same traditions, customs and even food as where they live now, in the refugee camps. Even more, my grandfather is a Karelian, which was a territory of Finland until the Soviet Union conquered in an aggressive war during the 40's which is certainly not unbeknown to us. Finland managed to fend off the SU against all odds, due to what Finns say as "guts" but had to secede a huge part of a territory for a "peace agreement" which was imposed by a much, much more powerful and revered country. My relatives thus lost all their possessions, having to live in abject poverty after the war. Yet, the Finns, who the Karelians are a part of took them in and settled them in and continued on with their lives, and Finns have gotten mostly over the loss of Karelia, which is historically [i]Finnish land[/i].

See, this goes both ways. If Palestinians are not a people, which some people incorrectly assert, they have a right as individuals to return to their homes and join the Israeli state and build it for what it stands for. But as the Palestinians have become a people one way or the other, they also have collective responsibility over their actions against their Jewish neighbors who demanded dignity and respect from the world community by creating a nation-state, a general trend that continued until most countries in history were freed from their imperialistic masters, and which some nations lack, specifically the Palestinians in this case. If Jews have no right to sovereignty in Palestine, I understand, but if communities do see it as a right to create a sovereign state where they can rule themselves, and their neighbors are against it and even take up arms, both people should bare the consequences. I find the Arab lack of acknowledging responsibility quite disturbing as it bases itself on a historical event that is being perpetuated to justify murder. I do not know how far Jews need to go to acknowledge Palestinian rights, but as far as I'm concerned, the two-state solution has received general consensus from the Israeli population, whom also knows that if this would occur, a civil war might ensue.

So, this means that Jews also have a problem. We are an extremely dogmatic people. Even I, who have come from abroad to Israel, am extremely fixated on Jewish issues and am very loyal to Jewish aspirations - as long as they don't go against my morals (whatever they are at a given time) i.e. the Holocaust, while important to learn about, is hyped up too much in some circles, as I see it. So, it is very difficult for us to accept that we should, with peace in return, relinquish territory that we deem as ours. Now this also raises the question of what is ours, and is Israel ours...? If not, what the hell are we doing here? Do we, as people, just need land to live in peace, or do we need [b]the land[/b] as "God" promised Abraham...? I am a foreigner, honestly, but feel so Jewish that when I'm here, I feel at home. Is the physical property of the land so endemic to our spiritual and non-physical existence as a people, which I mean by a joint exclusive religion, unique language and traditions, and shared history and almost fanatically fraternal sympathy and attitude to Jews world wide, that we just simply can't relinquish "our" land to another people who want a part, if not all, of it? I mean, even if we deny it, how religious are we? I see most Jews as quite religious, especially in Israel, even if they are secular, and definitely would see it quite difficult to give up land that [i]God gave us[/i]. I mean, God, whatever he, who, it, is how can you go against him? Or has he even given this land back to us yet... I mean... Too many questions. The whole conflict becomes an existential question which is the underlying problem. So, let's have fun brainstorming, and beating ourselves up because we never will come to a conclusion.
Hmm...it's about time someone addressed the refugees' problems. We have Palestinian and Iraqi refugees in Jordan, so I'm not sure how we're going to manage with more Palestinian refugees. It's not their fault that they're in this mess, though. That's just my opinion on this subject.
So, coming from Jordan, how do you see the Palestinians...? They are indeed a distinct people that justly deserve a return to their homes of decades past which don't even exist? Are they made to believe that the only positive outcome is a return to Palestine, to their original homes, not a the nation state that they will create within the West Bank and Gaza?

This creates a massive problem, then, as the existence of both people can only rely on their acquirement of their demands which is the same piece of real estate. Will this never end?
It does create a massive problem, for sure. I see the Palestinians as people who are here through no fault of their own. It's the rest of us who make it hard for them to have hope that they'll return to Palestine, but we make it hard for them to live in Jordan, too.
What does this mean...? That you are giving them false hope and at the same time letting them live as unwanted people there? But they are full citizens of the state, are they not?
I hope not. Most of them are full citizens of the state, but I'm hearing reports about taking away Jordanian passports from them. I don't know how much of them is true, though. I don't want them to leave. What have they done wrong to deserve it?
And I say never, so I guess we will be in conflict forever. Of course he is Palestinian; he was taken out of his home and shipped and shut into a small area of the same town he lived in, so the rest of the country could be pure. He had little food, and in the end was brought to an incinerator because he was the sole reason of Europe's ills. This does not correlate with Palestinian suffering, which is completely different. See, it was the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab brethren who tried to achieve a solution in fears of a Zionist take over, which also translates to Jewish national aspirations in then Palestine which was and still is absolutely unacceptable to mainstream Arab opinions. In other words, sad ignorance and disrespect towards history i.e. a completely lopsided view of the situation. See, conflicting attitudes of allowing Palestinians to flood Israel will always exist, I guess, so no peace is possible if people like "Rose" here refuse to say that [i]past is past[/i] and it's the future we have to live for. But thanks for making children believe in hopeless dreams, because you will lead us to doom and that is what every religious fanatic in the world wants; Armageddon.

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