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State of Palestine and Approval of Building New Settlements

On November 29, 2012 "The International Day of Solidarity with Palestine" the United Nations General Assembly approved Palestine as a non-member state .. This means that Palestine is recognized as a state after 18 years of being known as "Palestinian Territory" .. One day after the vote The Israeli government started announcing new plans to build more settler houses and extend some settlements especially in East Jerusalem .. 

 

Three days ago the Israeli government approved building 3,000 settler houses in East Jerusalem .. The Israeli government approved building 3,600 new settler houses in East Jerusalem yesterday .. A new plan to build 1,600 settler houses might be approved next week .. Israel has kept building the settlements by confiscating Palestinian lands .. I wonder whether two-state solution is still alive and the opportunity to make the "State of Palestine" exist on ground is available .. 



I'm disappointed and hopeless with respect to the "State of Palestine"

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Hello David, it is pleasing to read your contribution.

There are only 2 issues that have to be addressed in order to achieve peace: land ownership and refugees.  Israel is so terrified of the consequences of addressing these issues that they always erect smoke screens of all kinds, to camouflage the truth.

The refugees live within close proximity to Israel. They all owned houses and had work in the region now called Israel. They want to have a house that they own, and regular work, along with citizenship rights. Israel forced those people to leave their houses and prevented them from returning.

At the time Israel become a nation, the JNF owned only 6% of the land. The rest was owned by Arabs, and it was all illegally confiscated. Every Arab family that owned land wants their land back, or a suitable equivalent. These people all hold legal title to their land, or can provide evidence of perpetual tenancy rights. Israel has never intended to pay for this land, which they have used – without paying rent - for over 65 years.

The reason why Palestinian families are prevented from entering Israel is because they would return to exactly where they lived and immediately demand the right to take possession of the property, possibly waving a title-deed at anyone who stopped to look. This stand-off has been the state-of-play since 1948. It is the reason why refugees are shot at.

Issues such as control of Jerusalem and the location of borders are by comparison, trivial.

 

There can be 2 States, with Jews and Palestinians living within their respective countries, harmoniously, but this will only happen if the refugee families from 1948 receive justice. 

Hi everyone, I would like to continue your discussion. Hope I am inserting my comment in the right  place. I read somewhere about the comment made by Tim Upham referring to the extremists in both sides. For them, it is hard to learn that other religions, especially their religions of their enemies are as good as theirs. I think it is not hard as far as they do not appear ideologically. Everyday politics can shape the common people to become extremists. I also see another factor such as the macro politics that tend to drive the people mind of peace toward other. You said about the islamic ideology that is being applied into the state apparatus politics, I wonder whether the Israeli state is build base on the theocrazy as the Moslem in the middle east. I would like to write,  I just wait the right time to share to you all. Salam

 

What is so difficult about Israel, is that the country does not have a written constitution.  I have been with the lobby that has called upon it to create one.  But the movement within Israel, calling for a written constitution is so slight.  Legal experts in Israel are ready to start on this long overdue process, but there is really no force to push them.  So really Israel's lack of a written constitution, goes hand in hand with the West Bank settlements.  But at least in Israel, the movement against the West Bank settlements is stronger, so there is more hope for movement on this issue.  There are many things politically Israel keeps itself vague on.  It seems as though this is the reason, because Israel does not want to plunge itself into political turmoil that Egypt is currently going through.

I wonder whether there has been an evalution in what level of the process that seems stopping it for making it to happen. There are always many reasons around the core of the action that can be easy to blame too.

Attitude plays an enormous factor in it.  The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is just flooded with bad attitude, and have I been flooded with it.  But I have seen that my comments which I have placed in "The Times of Israel" are not so attacked anymore.  It is obvious readers are getting use to me.  But the readers need more impartial comments.

Tim and Farsijana,

I have read your comments here and on other posts. You are blessed for having the right attitude. Unfortunately, this situation now is driven by mutual fear. Each side has fear of the other for different reasons. We can go back in history to see where this started and why it continues. Also, there are outside players involved and those players back one side or the other for varying reasons. The situation is complex , but not without hope.

It is possible to make things work out for both Palestinians and Isrealis . the alternatives ( complete dominance by Isreal of Palestine, status quo, continued and escalating violence, etc. ) are not acceptable for a long term solution. However , it will take brave people on each side, secure leadership, compromise, and new solutions. There is an idea often discussed about borders . I am not so sure that is the main issue at this point in history.

Borders can be established. viable borders for each country. I always go back to Waleed's original comment about the viability of a two state solution. I believe that if the Arab governments outside Isreal are willing to support the idea of an israeli state and if the Palestinians de-escalated violence, then Isreal would take the next step. This first step, would be an important one that would go to impact attitudes on both sides.

At this point, the conflict has changed somewhat from the beginning.....and each side can point to a different beginning. Now two national states exist de facto, and the sooner that is recognized by all and accepted and embraced by all, the better things will move.

So Tim, it is attitude. And so Fasijana, yes the situation is complex. But, we should not lose hope

What the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve . Napolean Hill

Now it is watching current events, and seeing how they transpire.  Where will the United Nations' upgrade of Palestine to non-member status led to?  The outcome of the Israeli elections? I am afraid if Tzipi Livni gets into a coalition with Benyamin Netanyahu, the outcome will be the same as when Shaul Mofaz got into a coalition with him.  But more international pressure needs to be placed on Hamas to recognize the State of Israel.  The European Union is pressuring it to do so, but I am disappointed that the Pope has not done so yet.  With increased tension in the Persian Gulf, Qatar is wanting to go back and review the Arab League Peace Initiative (which once again is calling on Israel to withdrawal completely to the pre-1967 borders.)  So hope we do not remain in a holding pattern for long, because we have been in a holding pattern since 1993.

Tim, you and David need to both look at the situation from a wider viewpoint. Here you are complaining of no progress since 1993, yet, from the Palestinians perspective, they have been steadily losing land they owned, and houses they owned, ever since 1920.
The demand that Hamas recognize Israel is just a meaningless game designed to produce never-ending delays, all in the false belief that if there are enough delays, the whole Palestine refugee issue will magically disappear, and Israel will have control of the entire province, with no more than 20% of the Arab population.

Hamas recognizing the State of Israel is a requirement.  Because Israel just cannot be dealing with Fatah alone.  Also, Hamas recognizes the pre-1967 borders, so that lays down the issue of a defined border between Israel and Gaza.  But the West Bank seems to be the stumbling block between it and Israel.  The issue of a defined border between the West Bank and Israel is currently ongoing, because it will consider the future status of Jerusalem and the Israeli settlements.  A lot of bad feelings just cannot be back to 1920, but that is the challenge of an Israeli-Palestinian peace, bringing it all up to current standards.

Sussan,

If tomorrow all the violence, mutual fear and mistrust could stop and dissappear as if by magic, what would be your ideal solution that you believe would be agreeable and implementable to both sides ?

There is no such thing as an ideal solution that would be agreeable to both sides. There never was. Zionism is the colonization of Palestine, and the key feature of the colonization was that the Arabs would leave, so that the country would be Jewish. The Arabs were meant to disappear, since this is what usually happens when a country is colonized.

750,000 Arabs were deliberately displaced by Israelis, and prevented from returning to their homes and places of work. The families of these people are the ones that actively ‘agitate’ across the border, using various forms of violence, in an ongoing campaign to acquire back their property that was deliberately stolen by Israel.

 

There is only one solution, and that is the single State Solution, with the return of ALL refugee families.

Israel will never agree to this. Instead, Israel is very likely to unilaterally decide on a 2 State Solution, and then retreat from the West Bank, forcing the West Bank into a siege-like state, as happened with Gaza.

At some point, Israel will be shamed into dropping the siege-like cordon, at which time, any number of disgruntled refugees will discover they have the freedom to do whatever they like along the entire Israeli border.

Then what?  Your guess is as good as mine ...

I do not find this solution at all agreeable or acceptable. What it means is more years of violence and killing; before a default to a Single country, due to Israel being indefensible whilst there is such a large refugee population on her immediate border.

One of the things we can be sure of is that Palestinians will never be consulted (by the Israeli leadership) in either a meaningful or respectful manner.

If we put all of the Zionists into one category of evil and malicious, and all the Palestinians into one category of innocent victims.  Then what it is called is classic side taking.  For that is what the extremists just love doing.  To address this ongoing issue, then the extremist side taking has to be filed off.  Which means that Israeli politicians such as Shimon Peres, Tzipi Livni, Shelly Yachimovich, Shaul Mofaz, and Gabi Ashkenazi just cannot be fringe elements.  They must be mainstream Israel.  Such as Fatah having contact with Israel, it must include Hamas as well.  A great deal of extremism needs to be filed off, to create a smooth surface. For it is like what Yasser Arafat said, after Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated "Extremism exists on both sides."  I was not a fan of Arafat, because of the way he siphoned off millions of dollars in international aid for his own personal use, but he did hit the nail right on the head, when he said that.

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