State of Palestine and Approval of Building New Settlements

On November 29, 2012 "The International Day of Solidarity with Palestine" the United Nations General Assembly approved Palestine as a non-member state .. This means that Palestine is recognized as a state after 18 years of being known as "Palestinian Territory" .. One day after the vote The Israeli government started announcing new plans to build more settler houses and extend some settlements especially in East Jerusalem .. 


Three days ago the Israeli government approved building 3,000 settler houses in East Jerusalem .. The Israeli government approved building 3,600 new settler houses in East Jerusalem yesterday .. A new plan to build 1,600 settler houses might be approved next week .. Israel has kept building the settlements by confiscating Palestinian lands .. I wonder whether two-state solution is still alive and the opportunity to make the "State of Palestine" exist on ground is available .. 

I'm disappointed and hopeless with respect to the "State of Palestine"

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This is getting into a subject, that some sort of international mediator is going to have to deal with using an iron hand.  The subject of Jerusalem.  The city just simply cannot be divided.  It is not geographically nor religiously possible.  The Israeli government would be acting inappropriately, if more settlements were built on the West Bank.  The West Bank settlements are the bitter pill Israel will have to swallow.  But dividing Jerusalem is the bitter pill the Palestinians are going to have to swallow.  There is no other alternative, but to keep Ramallah as their capital.  Also, it would take more international aid for the Palestinians to move their capital to East Jerusalem.  They do not have the liberty available to them, like when Berlin became the capital of a united Germany.  The Oslo Accords left open that borders would be negotiated, well we are going to have to start somewhere.

There will be no problems with the supply of international aid to ensure Jerusalem is Palestine's capital.

Israelis are the only people who do not want to see Jerusalem as Palestine's capital. That means 200 other countries are willing to accept Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital.

It will not be called East Jerusalem. It will simply be Jerusalem, capital city of Palestine.

Tel Aviv is the correct capital for Israel.

International aid will play an enormous factor here, because only sporadically does it operate out of the kindness of anybody's heart.  Fidel Castro always assumed that the Soviet Union would pay Cuba's oil bill, but when the Soviet Union economically collapsed, Castro was left with egg on his face, and Cuba had to find other means to pay for its oil bill.  Donor nations, such as the United States, Great Britain, Sweden, and the European Union nations could not afford to supply the current level of aid to the Palestinian Authority, so the Palestinian Authority was forced to raise taxes to make up for the shortfall.  This led to two things, rioting in the West Bank cities, and Israel getting alarmed over the potential Palestinian economic collapse, that Netanyahu authorized them U.S. $60 million dollars.  Because both the Israeli and Palestinian economies are attached to each other by an umbilical cord.  Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital is still a political matter left unresolved.  The exact same thing would be the case for the Palestinians.  So it would not justified as a great inflow of international aid   Not politically, and especially economically when it is obviously seen that the money is not there.  Once again that nationalistic pride just has to be swallowed.

This is good that the Palestinian state is recognized as it is the right direction, also important is the Palestinian reconciliation


The reason the Settlers has power in the Israeli system is the fear that a Palestinian state will be a type of Gaza we experienced, people who collect weapon and attack civilians. This is why the Palestinian reconciliation will change Israel and when the Palestinian reconciliation will lead acceptance of the three principles as outlined by the quartet are as follows:

  • A Palestinian state must recognize the state of Israel without prejudging what various grievances or claims are appropriate,
  • Abide by previous diplomatic agreements
  • Renounce violence as a means of achieving goals.

In resolution 1850, the UN Security Council endorsed the Quartet Principles as "in preparation for statehood".

When Palestinian will present unity behaind this then the israelis will be able to push inside change, otherwise when we promote change in Israel the usual reaction is that the Palestinians will fire on Israel if they will have chance.

This news has shown that the Israeli counterpart seems not willing to share its vision to live together with its palestine people as the two states. I wonder what has been done by to address this developed policies as mentioned in the above notificiation. If anybody from the moderators or organizers could answer my question, I will appreciate it very much. Thank you. Salam. f


The subject deals with Jerusalem.  So I do not know if the government of Indonesia goes along with the concept, that an independent Palestine is to have its capital in Jerusalem.  Knowing the city as well as I do, I cannot see it possible that the city can be geographically or religiously divided.  For Jerusalem is 64% Jewish, while the West Bank is 75% Muslims.  The Oslo Accords, which were signed in 1993, said a 5 year period would be given to finalize borders.  Where it stands now, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, and Ramallah is the capital of the Palestinian Authority.  My personal feeling is, that it should remain that way, because of demographics.

Dear Tim Upham. Thanks so much for your explanation. Perhaps I missunderstood here. If you would like to explain your statement with showing that in the map, it might be clear to me. I know the Indonesian government supports two state solutions, but whether they also understand these realities, I do not know. What do I know that the map of Israel occupation to the area has expanded from time to time. In Indonesia, we understand that Israel has colonized the land of Palestine due to the changing borders all time especially after the Israel won a particular war. So I wonder whether the new policy of buidling housing complex explained above has shown a war mentality of the Isreali government? Sorry to say it. Salam.

I think what you are doing is going back to the old Jordanian boundaries, when the city was divided into Israel having the newer western part, and Jordan having the Old City.  When you are in the Old City, the Western Wall is just feet away from the Dome of the Rock.  In fact, they are almost on top of each other.  With Israel having possession of the Dome of the Rock, there has been no difficulty for Muslims to enter there.  But when Jordan had possession of it, Jews were not allowed to the Western Wall.  If the old Jordanian boundary was to be the border between Israel and Palestine, it would be up to the good graces of the Palestinian Authority to allow Jews to enter.  Which means the Palestinian Authority needs to get rid of their unwritten clause that Jews will not be allowed to live in an independent Palestine.  It is like Indonesia sealing the border with Papua New Guinea, when people have family contacts there.  Because the borders between Indonesia and Papua New Guinea, just comes from the days when Indonesia was a Dutch colony, and Papua New Guinea was an Australian League of Nations' mandate.  Expanding within Jerusalem really does not show an Israeli war mentality.  If Israel keeps expanding in the West Bank, then that is more of a war mentality.  Because Jews will never be a majority there.

I think it is quite sad that the international community would vote for the upgrade of Palestinain status when this is specifically mentioned as an area for discussion on final talks between Palestinains and Arabs, in otherword, they broke an international agreement.  Israel had no choice but to take unilateral meassures to show that such breach of an agreement must be punished.  The fact is that it will take years before any homes will be build and this is more of a declorative statement.  Palestinians move in teh UN just takes them furtheraway from a dream of a state...

Thanks Tim Upham for your clarification. I never know until you explained the application of Islamic shariah under the Jordanian power in the current Israel. However, in Indonesia we heard that Israeli government also has applied a primodial ideology based on the Judaism to distinguish its citizens. Would you comment on this fact?

Thanks for your explanation Jeff Stem. I was told those Palestine who were at the voting of UN, was Fatah. They had to do that in order to bring back the roles of Fatah in the Palestine politics, because of the popularity gained by Hamas among the people of Palestine. However some questions came accross in my mind, especiallly to wonder who were behind the talks between Palestines and Arabs? Are they the Eqyptian or the US? I also wonder about the roles of the UN. Why can not the UN to facilitate meetings  for an independent observer of Palestine when the chance for doing it available especially in the right time after the lastest war? Hope you can help me to understand more. Thank you. Salam.  

Israel just simply does what is done all throughout the Diaspora.  That is apply Halachic Law.  You are not considered Jewish, unless at least your mother is.  Conversion is a different process.  Conversion is definitely more common now, than what it was in the past.  Where it has widespread appeal now is among the Marranos.  Marrano is Spanish for "pig," and it refers to those Jews in Spain who converted to Roman Catholicism.  Before their expulsion from Spain in 1492, half of Spain's Jews converted.  The Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, was the descendants of Marranos, and knew it to.  But to know if you are a Marrano, then you need a far reaching genealogy, which Franco had.  It you do not, then there is DNA analysis, because your DNA can prove if you are Jewish, or in my case just simply verifying that my mother was.  Islamic Shariah law has nothing to do, to prove if you are Muslim.  You are Muslim if you simply follow the Five Pillars of Islam.  I plan to do a future discussion on migration and resettlement, two very emotional issues within the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, because it is addressed so lightly, and often with such religious fervor.

I think you have brought up very important topic to be considered deeply. I think among the Palestine from the father side, might have a blood line to the Israeli people, but they would not be accepted as a part of Israeli people. This is the ethnic construction which tends to be very exclusive. I wonder how far to go the construction has lived among the Jewish people? I ask this question because I know the book of Jonah shows the same concern on the exclusivism  among the Israeli people. Can this construction to be changed due to the current needs?. Thanks.



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