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Sometimes it is clear that the inner conflicts of Israel and Palestine are dictating the openness for change.

Palestine side:

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal vowed Gaza's rulers would never give up "an inch of the land" to Israel in an uncompromising speech before tens of thousands of cheering supporters at a triumphalist "victory" rally in Gaza City.

"Palestine is ours, from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he told the crowd on his first visit to Gaza. "We will never recognise the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."

source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/08/hamas-gaza-palestine-kh...

Do any one here support this statement? can he/she explain what is the expected outcome from such statment.

Israel side:

"The interesting thing is precisely that Abu Mazen [Abbas] did not issue a condemnation, not against words calling for the destruction of Israel, just as he did not condemn the firing of missiles at Israel," Netanyahu said, referring to Abbas' silence during the recent conflict between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

The Palestinian president "is striving for unity with the same Hamas that is supported by Iran,"

source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-palestinian...

 

Do any one here support this statement? can he/she explain what is the expected outcome from such statment.

 

The real issues are internals, According to the officials, President Mohammed Morsi intends to bring push for internal Palestinian unity as soon as possible, to establish a transition government, and set a date for Palestinian Authority elections.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/after-brokering-israel-gaza...

So there is internal pressure to end the Fatah - Hamas war, so Mishal is talking to the Palestinians make Hamas position more extreme while Netanyaho talk to the Israeli public who going to vote in the Israeli elections January 2013

 

 

 

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According to "The Times of Israel" Abbas did condemn the rocket firings into Israel.  What is so ironic is that Qatar supplied the money to Gaza for the Iranian rockets, while at the same time Qatar along with the United Arab Emirates are building up their naval defense forces, because of a threatening Iran.  The Wikileaks, showed both Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf emirates calling upon the United States to make a pre-emptive strike against Iran.  Khaled Meshaal can return to Gaza making a victory speech, but what about Hamas saying it recognizes the pre-1967 borders.  The pre-1967 borders with whom?  China?  The Palestinians were scheduled to have elections in May 2012, but were cancelled.  Only municipal elections have been held in the West Bank, with obscure "Independents" winning the elections.  As it stands now Meshaal is full of hot air, and it is more reliable to listen to Mohammed Morsi instead.

The Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal gave a speech that reminded me of an election rally. I was surprised by how large and orderly the gathering was. It was also visually impressive, something I was not expecting.

The real significance is that the speech was reported around the world in an unusually non-judgmental way.  Similar speeches coming out of the mouths of Israeli leaders are always reported in that kind of non-judgmental manner, but this is not the way Hamas is usually reported on.  That counts for more than anything Khaled said.

Words can be like water under a bridge. Israeli leaders have made many outrageous statements, so it is not such a good idea to treat anyone’s words too seriously except when they are backed up with the use of weapons. Politics involves a lot of posturing.

Everyone is becoming very tired of Israel’s inability to make any decisions that are either peaceful or responsible, especially when it is so obvious that Israel has the upper hand economically and militarily.

Neri, you asked, do I support the statement?  Maybe you should have asked, do I believe the statement. Or perhaps you should have asked do Palestinians believe the statement.

No one is too sure of what will be the final outcome, but I suspect it will be one shared state. I think it is very likely that all Israelis will be physically safe, but with a single State, Israelis will be sharing the financial burdens of the Arab community.

I do not think you should take my speculations too seriously.

Ask more, if you want to ...

Hamas wants international recognition, but two things stand in their way.  First of all, the European Union refuses to drop them from their list of terrorist organizations, until they recognize the State of Israel.  Second of all, when they had voters registrations in Gaza, Hamas went in and cancelled all of them.  Meshaal's highly publicized speech, may be like when Yasir Arafat had his United Nations' General Assembly speech (trying to introduce himself to the world as a credible statesman).  Hamas can show credibility, if they can be dropped as a terrorist organization -- like the Palestine Liberation Organization was, -- and if they can participate in elections, and most important of all, their outcome.  Not their putsch in Gaza in 2007.

Thanks for explaining this. In Indonesia, the speech of the leader of Hamas, Meshaal, is accepted as a social reality to not considering the fact of the internal war between fractions in the Palestine politics. Do you think the way to understand the message spread out on Palestine, in or outside the area depending on where the news are created. For examples, the Palestine issues in Indonesia appear so sound Islamism even the fact Palestine is not all muslim. Creating news to sound islamism can ease to mobilize people in a particular context. Tx. Slm. Farsijana. 

First of all, Hamas Doctrine is not based on strictly Islam, it is mostly based on extreme nationalism.  That is the reason why I made an effort to learn about Islam and Islamic history.  Because I can see what it is, and what it is not.  When it comes to Islamic history, Hamas Doctrine gets fictional.  Islam spread not because of warring jihad, it spread along trade routes.  Like the spice trade routes, is what brought Islam to Malaysia and Indonesia, and it took over the confusing mixture of Hinduism and Buddhism that mostly the royalty followed.  When you look at the Palestinians, they are descendants of caravan raiders.  Because Mohammed came up with "hudna," where they agreed not to raid each others caravans.  So this took the Arabian tribes up into Persian and Byzantine territory.  Palestine was the Byzantine name for this region, when the Arabian tribes arrived there in the 7th century C.E.  The challenge is to get the Palestinians away from extreme nationalism to where they fit into modern society.

I thought that Palestine and the Israeli might have a blood line. The spread of Isreali societies around the middle east also show intertwining among the nations in the area. However, the power based on tribal ties had been strongly. Even we can see the schism among the Islamic society occured due to that ethnic reason. Persian belongs to Shiah and the Arabs relates to Sunny. Do you think that the war in Syria might be relevant to be understood from this perspective? Apparently, the application of Ummah in Islam always gets its challenges due to the struggles of power especially within the Islamic societies since the death of the Prophet Muhammad SAW.  We have the same problem here in Indonesia where the majority of Islamic people are Sunny. The rise of Iran (Persian) has frightened to the Arab monarchs which could do anything to stop the control of that brother of moslem. Strengthening the influences of Arab means to shape their national identity like Arab, like Wahabian. If we could recognise this cause effect in the process of shaping the identities in the middle east, perhaps the situation can be solved slowly. What do you think, Tim Upham? Salam.

 

What we are seeing in Syria right now, is the Sunnite majority trying to overthrow the Shiite elite.  That is the reason why Assad is being supported by Iran and Hezbollah.  In fact, Hezbollah has been fighting with Sunnites in Lebanon.  Israel has good diplomatic relations with Azerbaijan, which shows it can have good relations with a predominately Shiite Muslim nation.  So Shia is not the enemy of Israel, but those who have corrupted it, with political and nationalistic dogma.  Sunni is not the enemy of Israel, but those who have corrupted it, with political and nationalistic dogma.  Israel is repairing its relations with Turkey, and Mohammed Morsi wants to continue to have good relations with Israel.  A Sunni imam in Gaza, issued a fatwa against breaking the cease-fire with Israel.  So the so-called "good Muslims" are out there, but it is tapping into them, and most important of all, making sure their voices are heard.  Because when you break it down, all Muslims are capable of performing good, and an imam can tap into the Qu'ran and hadiths to verify it, but the big challenge is to get the followers to go along with it, like Khaled Meshaal.

This is an interesting analysis to show the development of ancient islamic traditions  into a modern politics such as Hezbollah which wants to lead this world power on the basic of a Islamic leadership. Hope you can explain more on this phenomenon.

Hezbollah is a shell of its former self.  Because of the Syrian Civil War, and Sunnite challenges in Lebanon, it will never return to its past glory.  Hezbollah does not have a chance of leading anywhere again.  The only chance the Shiites have in Lebanon, is if they find a new leader, than Hezbollah.

Power deceives people to narrow their mind in order to moblize their followers. Hezbollah appears differently from the Middle Ages period because of the difficulty to organize its followers. Now by living in the age of ICT, Hezbollah grows like mushrooms everywhere because of the religious ideology to be the alternative solution for Islam to answer the world.

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