Many are blaming others and see that the other side is evil.

We know that here for many years.

Can friends write what they can do at this moment to promote change?

Please avoid the blame of the other side, unless you think the other side is pure evil, and that justify your wish for their destruction/immigration. If  you cannot avoid that, you cannot relate to this question because Good exist in both sides and that Good is what will help us create better relationships.


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So you believe that your friend cannot be my enemy, simply because you find them to be "nice" . Ask some European survivors how some "nice friends" turned them in to the Germans or how some Arab "nice friends" butchered their Jewish "friends" in Hevron.

"What good can we do to create change."

This is a very complex question that humanity has struggled for thousands of years and has not been able to solve. Conversations or one on one interaction may make one feel good especially if the person on the other side agrees with us. But we are complex beings and while we may agree on one or two points as a matter of being humans disagree on many others.

Change comes from within a society when it has no other options but to make these changes and must be agreed to by society in the majority. Slavery and segregation in the USA persisted long after slavery was abolished and even today the greatest democracy on earth know to humans is struggling with equality. Women rights, Gay rights, equal wages, equal access to health plans, welfare, immigration, refugees etc, etc, etc.

I may , as I said , agree with you on some of these issues but disagree on others does that mean that I do not want change-NO. It means that I do not fully agree with you what changes are necessary.

BTW-Today"s enemy may be you friend tomorrow and an enemy again the next day, depending on a set of circumstances or even in the reverse order.. That is part of life that we learn from a very early age in human relationships. If one has not experienced that than they have not lived life.

Tim. It is simply too bad that people that want to present a feel good message cannot relate to the human condition as it relates to human interaction. Massacres were committed throughout history but by people that were evil but by people that either supported that evil or turned a blind eye to evil. We punish murderers in our legal system but not people that see that murder and fail to report it or who do not wish to testify about what they saw.

So please do not get all worked up and for the record neither I nor my wife would ever set foot in Germany or even buy a German made product.That tainted record is 32 million dead and millions of refugees. They can never be made into victims as they are the people that assisted these murders by their inaction. 32 million dead and still nazism is making a comeback in Germany and antisemitism in Europe. Wow, lets look the other way at an inconvenient history.

I must be just old fashion Anti-Semite, if I have ever been to Germany.  I wonder if the Israeli athletes killed at Munich were?

Tim are you using this forum as a coping mechanism or are you simply on a guilt trip. Your replies are simply not on topic and attribution relates to your what you think others are saying. Only you can say if you are!!!!

Land swaps have been considered, especially in the question of the Israeli settlements.  Probably to a lesser degree about connecting the West Bank to Gaza.  But all questions about land swaps have been extremely vague, because the definition about borders has never been resolved.  Imperialism is defined as the unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship between nation-states.  It was given broader meaning by writers such as Edward Said.  Some people like him, some people do not.  Where Israel would fall into the category of apartheid, is if it were to annex the West Bank, and not give the Palestinians there the right to vote.  So these terms can be thrown around.  But the question is how to get the politicians to start resolving the issues?  The "Jewish Daily Forward" announced that Shaul Mofaz is going to Ramallah to meet with Mahmoud Abbas.  My comment to the publication was "I hope the press release after the meeting does not just say 'He was so nice to meet.'  But will instead outline what plans are being laid down for establishing borders, which can include something like land swaps.  For establishing borders was outlined by the Oslo Accords, which was officially signed by the State of Israel and the Palestine LIberation Organization -- which later manifested into the Palestinian Authority.

Unilateral Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank is being proposed by Ehud Barak, Israel's Minister of Defense.  As Defense Minister he would know precisely where those boundaries can be put into place.  His proposal can get broader support within the Knesset and the Israeli Cabinet, with Likud being into a coalition government with Kadima.  Shaul Mofaz is leader of the Kadima party, and he is also Israel's deputy prime minister.  So it will remain on the press release issued after the meeting in Ramallah, whether Mofaz will be supporting Barak's proposal, and offering it to Abbas.  Because we all have been waiting for too long.

It has been cancelled.  I wonder if it will not be rescheduled?  In order for the West Bank to become a nation-state, it will have to be a contiguous entity.  So options for the Israeli settlements can be either return to the settlers back to the pre-1967 borders, stay and become citizens of Palestine, or the possibility of land swaps.  The West Bank and Gaza can function separately, the same way that West Pakistan and East Pakistan did.  Except later East Pakistan become Bangladesh.  But I have been all throughout the West Bank, and saw an Israeli settlement here, and a Palestinian village over the hill, and it just cannot be a patch quilt of these inhabited areas under two separate government administrations.  There must be continuity, and achieving that continuity will have to be decided.

Israel did not put Yamit in the Sinai up for sale, it was just withdrawn and dismantled.  The 16,000 Israeli settlers in Gaza, where just simply withdrawn.  Of course, there are over 300,000 in the West Bank.  But if there is international mediation involved, it does not seem possible that such unlikely notions can be a part of negotiations.  So what Israel needs to be concerned with is not how to make money, for it can do that now with all its high technology deals throughout the world.  But how to save money, and having the military presence in the West Bank withdrawn, is a good way of doing it.


This has nothing to do with "MONEY" but rather security. Barak is out of touch with the body politic in Israel. Look what his unilateral withdrawal in Lebanon created for Israel, and look at Gaza after a unilateral withdrawal.

Judea and Samaria will never be abandoned and Rabin never intended that there would be a Palestinian State. That he did, is simply a myth.

Israel does not waste any money on its military, the military presence is vital to maintain Israeli control both within and beyond the 1948 borders.

None of the Arab owned land was ever purchased after 1948, and even the land purchased prior to 1948 all had perpetual tenancy covenants. The occupation is PROTECTING ALL OF ISRAEL. There is a massive number of Palestinian refugees who will create mayhem if they are left out in the cold, after a so-called peace settlement.

There was never a time when Zionist Jews held any of the Holy Land without the aid of weapons. Look at descriptions of Palestine in the 1930’s and 1940’s. All kibbutz’s were military fortifications. The Arab villages were like farming communities, with houses that were scattered across the landscape, complete with winding lanes and stone fences – totally exposed to the fate that befell them when the Haganah and Stern Gang took it upon themselves to shoot at these villagers, bomb their houses, and force them from them across the borders.

When the occupation ends, so will Israel, because every refugee will walk back in, to exactly where their family came from.

I guess I can walk back to Budapest.  My parents where refugees from there during the 1956 Uprising.



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