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When a Palestinian questions the presence of the Israeli settlers in the middle of Hebron city between many thousands of Palestinians living there, the answer would immediately reach him, which is because its their grandfathers land and they have the right to live on this land, and to be the only one to have the blessing of living on the holy land of their grandfathers, the same answer would be delevired when questioning the presence of so many settlments that continues to exist and expand on the very small peace of land that we wish to call palestine one day. My grandfathers also lived on this land for a very long period of time, they were in Haifa, Jaffa, Ashdod, Nasereth, and Tabaryya, all over this land my grandfathers lived. Shall i go and choose a place in an Israeli neighbrhood and stay there making living difficult to them because my grandfathers used to live on that place and i have the right to be the only one to have the blessing of living there?

For me this wouldnt be the best option to choose since i must respect the right for others to live, but what about my right and the right of thousands of Palestinians who seeks to live a peaceful and comfortable life on the land that should be belonging to them?

I really hope that Israelis would reach a point where they understand that Palestinians have the same right that they have to live on this land, hoping that the coming year would carry a different kind of celebration where Palestinians inside and outside would be included in.

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Comment by Neri Bar-On on August 29, 2008 at 11:04am
Dear Sigal,

I am convinced that we cannot convince you, I am somewhat not convinced you are convinced you can convince us. if you know what I mean.

in short, lets drop it.

Join us for laughs ans smiles in 'The Mary and Neri Show'
Comment by Neri Bar-On on August 29, 2008 at 8:54am
Delete Comment Grisha,

The Arab dont need to accept your narrative, not the Jews need to accept th Palestinian narrative. we need to respect that there are other interpertations of what is important and what are the meaning for historic events.

we both need to recognize that we have different narratives but one future, as we all live here.

As you say I deny the Jews rights and Mari Rizzo say I deny the Palestinians rights I have some sense I say something right.

You choose unrespectful way toward me and Palestinian to present your ideas. please select your words differently.
Comment by Neri Bar-On on August 29, 2008 at 8:52am
Grisha,

The Arab done need to accept your narrative, not the Jews need to accept th Palestinian narrative.
we both need to recognize that we have different narratives but one future, as we all live her.

As you say I deny the Jews rights and Mari Rizzo say I deny the Palestinians rights I have some sense I say something right.

You choose unrespectful way toward me and Palestinian to present your idea. please select your words differently.
Comment by Neri Bar-On on August 29, 2008 at 3:00am
Dear Sigal,
When some one is violate guidelines we should talk with him/her. I am not excluded from that process and have no problem for people to ask me to take my word back as I do not intend to offend any body.

But I do not intend to be offended too and the way you speak is arrogant and not respectful toward me and other Palestinian members. people who do not agree with you are not necessarily agree with what you do not agree - life are much more complex then that.

Rebirth you bring is an Zionist term this is how many Israeli see Israel, but the majority of Israelis do not see Israel as a state that continue King David kingdom. 2000 years ago there was nothing like the modern national state (BTW this is what the teach in Tel-Aviv university ). The problem with this term is that it is a "Internal" term, from the outside you cannot see it, for Arabs who did not educated in Jewish tradition this mean nothing and you cannot convince them that you had a National right to rebirth yourself in Palestine as for them it was never empty.and the rebirth mean that they needed to pay the price of this Jewish urge for rebirth.

So you can explain to Palestinians that for us the Israelis we see this Zionist act as a rebirth, it is true description of internal Jewish process; but we cannot ask Palestinian to accept our internal terms (because this is a rape of the other side internal terms remembering villages that were destroyed in Palestine).

Arabs are not denying our very attachment to Israel; They do not accept that it means that they are paying the price for our rebirth.
Comment by Yigal D. Kahana on August 29, 2008 at 2:18am
Hi Ana
We are in the process of starting to operate a new system for Moderating posts.
Neither I nor any other member of the Interaction group can see or even notice every post that gets posted. When any of us personally notices a post that violates the mepeace guidelines
we are supposed to bring it to the group's attention so that appropriate action may be taken.

If you or any other member sees any post that you think violates the posted guidelines,
please bring it to the attention of a member of the interaction team.
If you prefer, contact me personally.

Obviously, if someone did not realize the implications of a statement they made,
they cannot have intended much offense by those implications...
Comment by Yigal D. Kahana on August 29, 2008 at 2:08am
Shall we argue about the word "re-birth"?
How is it worth it? and it is a semantic argument anyway.
The fact is, it is there. Next.

I do not think I "whitewash."
I can only respond based on the text of what someone has written.
I cannot read minds, though I read the written word very well.
Fact is, he did not write the things I said he did not write.

As for your personal communications,
you have every right to tell him where you think he is wrong,
based on the statements he actually made.
In my opinion, there is plenty to criticize there....
but in a nice way, please?
Comment by Neri Bar-On on August 29, 2008 at 1:19am
Ana,
This is a very good question, I only can say what I think is going to happened based of the developmental forces we can see in the region.

At the moment the Israelis cannot do much against Qassam without taking many human rights.
But Responsibility is to direct one self to a situation that this aggression will not be needed and take in account the time it take.

At the moment the dynamic is a stuck negotiation, from one side there is internal instability within the Palestinians and "zero sum" negotiation from the Israeli side which is stronger.
The Israelis are accessing all their power in order to win the maximum they can from the situation "for the good of Israel". This dynamics lead for increase and complicate the way the Palestinians are building their National state and identity. It is wiser to declare Israel recognition for responsibility of the Palestinian and willing to support the forming of state institutes and Palestinian state. Israel need to invest more resources to make the life of Palestinians better and develop their economy and skills for managing a state. Israel need to make more risk and understand that some of the measures will increase its vulnerability for terror attacks on army and civilians.

If only the Israelis would be able to trust the Palestinians that they can restrain the extreme groups we could easily have Israel to turn this path. but as now the trust is so low it need much more effort. and the trust within the Palestinian society is also low as Hamas and Fatah fighting over how is going to control the Palestinian society.

Any way Israel can reduce a lot of checkpoint and settlements and declare Israel commitment for supporting the emergence of Palestine while the Palestinian searching for the right social code for them to be one body with a peaceful will.








-----
"zero sum" is a term from game theory that means that you win or loose in the game.
Comment by Yigal D. Kahana on August 29, 2008 at 12:27am
Sigal,
What are you talking about?
Nobody on mepeace is saying that "the Arabs are entitled to murder Jews and Israelis simply because we are there against the Arabs wishes."
Nobody.
Please read people's words carefully and avoid putting words in their mouths that they never said?
That only leads to arguments about things that there was no need to argue about.

I have also, on many occasions, disputed statements made on mepeace to the effect of:

"...all the troubles have started as a result of the RE-birth of the Jewish State of israel."

But Neri did not say that in the quote you cited either. Actually, I have few problems with what he wrote there.
The biggest is where he says:
"that Arabs who lived here rejected this immigration"
without acknowledging the extent to which that rejection was related to one of those "old theories"
that of the normality of discrimination against Jews (and Christians) by Muslims under the Ottoman system.

Another problem is where he wrote:
"by 1948 the Zionist were able to get a charter for a state in the Palestine territory with agreement of Palestinian Arab state and international Jerusalem. Due to the war started by other Arab countries..."
I don't recall there having either been a Palestinian Arab state at the time with which Israel could have concluded any treaty (the PLO was founded in 1964),
nor any official statement by any party uniquely representing the Palestinian population (as opposed to the Syrian, or Egyptian, or Arab identities) agreeing to the establishment of any State of Israel. Quite the contrary, actually. The way I recall, all contemporary Arab leaders, except maybe Abdullah #1 of Jordan, were pretty much against the idea of partition in 1947.
The war was started by other Arab countries, yes, but certainly not against the express wishes of the official organs of the Palestinian state, as he implied.

Those issues can be explored in this context,
without putting words in people's mouths or bringing up red-herrings.
Comment by Yigal D. Kahana on August 29, 2008 at 12:07am
You all could move over to the discussion forum...
Hiba did re-post this over there.
Comment by Neri Bar-On on August 28, 2008 at 10:39pm

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